Voron 2.4 R2 - From Ontario Canada HEY!

[smirk]

8 hours ago, PFarm said:

Is this caused by defective permanent magnets?

Does the gantry fall evenly (i.e. all four corners lowering?) Surely you couldn't have four duff motors,if it was only one duff motor then i would've expected one corner to sag....where I'm going with this is perhaps not duff motors. (NB: I don't have a built 2.4 so I'm waving my hands about speculatively).

[PFarm]

@smirk Thanks for the info! That's what I thought just to replace the Z motors with LDO and make sure rotation is correct. I looked for Moon motor in Canada but none are available only LDO on a short time frame i(ordered today and they are already shipped). Wasn't aware that they have less torque. 

[PFarm]

21 minutes ago, smirk said:

Does the gantry fall evenly (i.e. all four corners lowering?) Surely you couldn't have four duff motors,if it was only one duff motor then i would've expected one corner to sag....where I'm going with this is perhaps not duff motors. (NB: I don't have a built 2.4 so I'm waving my hands about speculatively).

Yes, all four motors fall evenly, you can actually visually see it drop.

Edited January 19, 2023 by PFarm

[smirk]

1 minute ago, PFarm said:

I looked for Moon motor in Canada

If it's any consolation there's none in the UK either. I just ordered some direct from Moons for my V0 rebuild, the most singularly expensive steppers I've ever bought. I presume they are hand-made by gnomes in Zurich from the finest vibranium.

[smirk]

10 minutes ago, PFarm said:

Yes, all four motors fall evenly you can actually visually see it drop.

I wouldn't say that was the motors (?!) not all four (unless your granty has depleted Uranium in it and it's just too heavy). Does the gantry fall (at a visible rate) when the power is turned off to the machine? I would've thought the gearing would've held the gantry so it didn't fall (much) when powered off - I could be complete wrong there.

I wonder if something is loose? Otherwise, if it holds when powered off then it could be some odd setting in the motor definitions (causing it to drop when powered on).

[PFarm]

42 minutes ago, smirk said:

I wouldn't say that was the motors (?!) not all four (unless your granty has depleted Uranium in it and it's just too heavy). Does the gantry fall (at a visible rate) when the power is turned off to the machine? I would've thought the gearing would've held the gantry so it didn't fall (much) when powered off - I could be complete wrong there.

I wonder if something is loose? Otherwise, if it holds when powered off then it could be some odd setting in the motor definitions (causing it to drop when powered on).

It drops at a visual rate powered on or powered off. I looked thru motor settings and couldn't find anything that changed. I commented out Klicky config that was the last change I made and still falls.  I've done through all four motors to see if something was loose but everything was tight. The reason I think it's not software related is it drops when not powered on.

Edited January 19, 2023 by PFarm

[atrushing]

7 hours ago, PFarm said:

It drops at a visual rate powered on or powered off.

The only information I could find about the V2.4 gantry falling was in this Facebook discussion.

I think one of the biggest factors would be your motor detent torque. The Moon 0.9deg steppers show 16 mNm and 15 mNm for their 1.8deg steppers. Unfortunately, I can't find any information from LDO or StepperOnline regarding their detent torque for comparison.

One of the suggestions in the Facebook discussion was to use a KeyBak to help hold the gantry up. You could also use the Stop the Drop device that Nero3D shows in his video.

[PFarm]

5 hours ago, atrushing said:

The only information I could find about the V2.4 gantry falling was in this Facebook discussion.

I think one of the biggest factors would be your motor detent torque. The Moon 0.9deg steppers show 16 mNm and 15 mNm for their 1.8deg steppers. Unfortunately, I can't find any information from LDO or StepperOnline regarding their detent torque for comparison.

One of the suggestions in the Facebook discussion was to use a KeyBak to help hold the gantry up. You could also use the Stop the Drop device that Nero3D shows in his video.

I found these specs for the LDO motors:

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by PFarm

[atrushing]

15 minutes ago, PFarm said:

I found these specs for the LDO motors:

The holding torque is for when the steppers are enabled and under power. Detent torque is how much the coils resist turning while no power is applied. On the Moons website they show a few more specs for their motors.

[PFarm]

@atrushing Ah thanks for the clarification!

[PFarm]

This morning I reloaded the software and same result, I was skeptic that it would fix it but gave it a shot. Got an email that replacement motors will be here today.

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by PFarm

[PFarm]

Steppers didn't come in today email I got was for the Whooping Klicky Probe. What an awesome design love that the magnets are countersunk for the screws, it comes with heater inserts, two microswitches PCB, printed parts mounting bracket, mounting bracket PCB and JST connector. Printing the probe holder so the magnet is at the front of the bracket instead of behind the bracket in the original design, the front magnet attaches to a countersunk machine screw on the probe PCB printed part. The design utilizes no glue it connects directly to the probe port on the afterburner PCB uses 24V. and added connectivity LED. I'll eventually switch to Tap and use the Klicky on one of my Artillery X1 that I'm modding. Just trying to get it all working before starting to modify the printer.

Edited January 21, 2023 by PFarm

[mvdveer]

5 hours ago, PFarm said:

I got was for the Whooping Klicky Probe.

Stop showing me stuff!! I have an urge, no resist, resist, resit 

Nice design though. It is what brought me to the Euclid probe - the screw in magnets. 

But I think I am sold on the Voron Tap - getting beautiful consistent prints

[PFarm]

@atrushing Installed the LDO Z motors to my surprise they are 1.8-degree motors. These seem louder than the moon stepper, but at least they hold the gantry up while powered on. That was weird with all four z not holding up the gantry.

[Buurman]

On 1/21/2023 at 5:53 AM, mvdveer said:

Stop showing me stuff!! I have an urge, no resist, resist, resit 

Nice design though. It is what brought me to the Euclid probe - the screw in magnets. 

But I think I am sold on the Voron Tap - getting beautiful consistent prints

You did something better than me then  I today had for the fist time that my offset was off.. 3 out of 10 prints or so... 
NEver had this with Klicky, where I could just walk away after starting a print, with TAP (for me) I cant...

I thinks its ooze from filament, I cant imagine I can get trough a QGL succesfully when its not consistent...

[Buurman]

On 1/21/2023 at 12:32 AM, PFarm said:

Steppers didn't come in today email I got was for the Whooping Klicky Probe. What an awesome design love that the magnets are countersunk for the screws, it comes with heater inserts, two microswitches PCB, printed parts mounting bracket, mounting bracket PCB and JST connector. Printing the probe holder so the magnet is at the front of the bracket instead of behind the bracket in the original design, the front magnet attaches to a countersunk machine screw on the probe PCB printed part. The design utilizes no glue it connects directly to the probe port on the afterburner PCB uses 24V. and added connectivity LED. I'll eventually switch to Tap and use the Klicky on one of my Artillery X1 that I'm modding. Just trying to get it all working before starting to modify the printer.

Ooooh I like what I see... not resisting but searching on google now! hahaha!

[PFarm]

2 minutes ago, Buurman said:

You did something better than me then  I today had for the fist time that my offset was off.. 3 out of 10 prints or so... 
NEver had this with Klicky, where I could just walk away after starting a print, with TAP (for me) I cant...

I thinks its ooze from filament, I cant imagine I can get trough a QGL succesfully when its not consistent...

What changes with Tap creating the oozing compared to Klicky?

[Buurman]

TAP uses you nozzle on the bed to measure.... if there is ooze on your nozzle, its off.

And I do a nozzle scub (hot) then cool off, then G28 + QGL and scrub again then print..

Takes a LOT longer...

he can also only probe when the hotend is cold (under 150 degrees C) what also is annoying... a bit.

With Klicky you dont have that problem.

 

Do you have a link to this awesome Klicky thing?

[PFarm]

@Buurman From a Canadian supplier: https://www.3dlabtech.ca/product/pcb-klicky-probe-kit/

 

[mvdveer]

13 minutes ago, Buurman said:

You did something better than me then

I have a 2mm retraction in my PRINT_END macro, to minimise ooze when the nozzle heats up. I have also ensured that the nozzle in the PRINT_START macro does not heat above 100, to prevent filament ooze. Before printing, I do a long purge line to get the filament flowing. Seems to be working so far

[Buurman]

Just now, mvdveer said:

I have a 2mm retraction in my PRINT_END macro, to minimise ooze when the nozzle heats up. I have also ensured that the nozzle in the PRINT_START macro does not heat above 100, to prevent filament ooze. Before printing, I do a long purge line to get the filament flowing. Seems to be working so far

I have this too, but still I heat it up for a scrub in the beginning, maybe I just just take that out... and like you said, not more than 100 degrees, not the 150 I do now.. ok.. giving it another shot.. 

Getting Klickys out of canada will take a while anyhow  

[mvdveer]

1 minute ago, Buurman said:

Getting Klickys out of canada will take a while anyhow  

And for me the postage will be the price of another V0

 

[Buurman]

3 minutes ago, mvdveer said:

And for me the postage will be the price of another V0

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005005024238228.html

 

better? muahahahaha!

[mvdveer]

1 minute ago, Buurman said:

better? muahahahaha!

Ahhhh - she's not going to be happy! May have to get one for "standby"

[atrushing]

2 hours ago, PFarm said:

Installed the LDO Z motors to my surprise they are 1.8-degree motors. These seem louder than the moon stepper, but at least they hold the gantry up while powered on.

Glad you got that issue sorted out. I do think it has something to do with the 0.9deg steppers but I would have to do some testing to verify anything.

For the noise, you can test between SpreadCycle and StealthChop. I've had some motors where StealthChop wasn't very stealthy..