Voron TAP - New No probe mod from the Voron Design Team

[Calvinx]

Being a Mechanical Engineer (field based) for the last 35 years in remote locations in the oil & gas industry im used to getting the job done with what i have in front of me.

So i looked at the problem of belt retention and probe activation from another angle.

I came up with a "cassette" that uses 5mm precision ground shafting and oilite bearings, the whole thing is designed to only move  maximum of 2mm (in reality it only takes 0.8mm of movement to activate the switch.

see the drawing, as my voron is printing fine i didn't want to mess with it but i wanted to field test my idea so i printed the main parts up to fit one of my test bed corexy machines.

see the link to the video

Voron Test Cassette

[claudermilk]

One thing that I've run across that now has me thinking about that Chaoticlab part is the 3mm shift Tap causes. An unintended side effect I have run into is now I can barely get my nozzle over my scrubber & purge bucket. I repositioned it to jam right up against the back of the bed and bent the bristles as far forward as I could get them to stay. The nozzle will just hit the forward edge just enough to work ok-ish. I'd like that 3mm back so the scrubbing works correctly again--especially considering the new importance of a clean nozzle tip. The Chaoticlab part apparently not only does away with the shift, but pulls it 0.7mm tighter to the carriage. It looks promising from the Steve Builds stream this weekend.

[Penatr8tor]

@claudermilk I saw you on that stream. I had a bunch of stuff going on so I didn't get a chance to comment, not that I could offer Steve any advice LOL. I like the Chaoticlab design and I even ordered one despite the fact that my OG TAP works like a dream.

I guess when I buy these things I'm subconsciously queueing up future projects.

Always good to have fun future projects. 

[Penatr8tor]

@Calvinx Video was awesome! From a visual standpoint, it looks like it works well.

I also like the new design. I did a quick search on McMaster for plastic bearings, Nylon, Delrin, Rulon J, etc. and they're all pretty pricey, anywhere from $10-$20 each and that kind of puts an end to that idea.

Question... What CAD are you using? Is that Onshape?

[Calvinx]

23 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

@Calvinx Video was awesome! From a visual standpoint, it looks like it works well.

I also like the new design. I did a quick search on McMaster for plastic bearings, Nylon, Delrin, Rulon J, etc. and they're all pretty pricey, anywhere from $10-$20 each and that kind of puts an end to that idea.

Question... What CAD are you using? Is that Onshape?

I use Sketchup Pro 2021.

I have some genuine igus bushes and i didnt find them any better that the no-name olite bushes.

I also ordered some 6mm I/D bushes as i have a good amount of high quality 6mm O/D carbon fibre tube i would like to test, and see how lightweight i can go.

[Penatr8tor]

@Calvinx Agree... Obviously, Replacing the heaviest components for ones made of a lighter material will net you the biggest gains. The challenge comes by way of cost as most things made of newer more exotic materials carries a hefty premium. And that's why we end up looking for something cost effective to fabricate less costly alternatives.

I would venture to say that the Voron guys probably went thru a similar process and went with an MGN9 slide because it was, in their opinion, the most cost-effective solution.

Sketchup Pro Huh... I always considered that more of a toy than legit CAD, but you're making it look like a serious tool. 

[Calvinx]

21 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

@Calvinx

Sketchup Pro Huh... I always considered that more of a toy than legit CAD, but you're making it look like a serious tool. 

Once you learn how to overcome some of its idiosyncrasies through a little bit of lateral thinking you can make models very very quickly,  and for me its a you get what you see, want to draw a line you choose the pencil tool and draw as you would naturally, the biggest plus to help you with Sketch-Up is the vast amount of plug-ins  that are available which automate a huge amount of tasks

And having used Sketch-Up at home for near on 15 years now I'm quite comfortable with it, and once you build up a library of components you can put together complex models very quickly.

I teach C.A.D. at work using Solid-Works but I actually prefer Sketch-Up.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Calvinx
spelling

[Penatr8tor]

@Calvinx Nice! For the last 20 years SolidWorks has been my main tool, I'm a ME Design Eng in the Medical Device industry. Before that it was Pro/E and before that 2D AutoCAD. Now I'm primarily using Fusion 360. I was also the CAD guy, setting up the infrastructure, training employees, etc. for many companies over the years so I can definitely relate. I used to champion certain CAD products but now I realize that the best tool is the one you know and like the best.

What is appealing to me re: sketchup is that it sounds like sketching with ketchup... LOL just kidding. What I like about it is the graphic style. I love the kind of industrial design sketch way where they employ varying line thicknesses to the parts, light lines for dims and centerlines and such then medium line width for the interior lines and finally the bold outer line that goes around the part just makes all the components pop. Whoever developed the UI gave the models a really nice aesthetic IMO.

[mvdveer]

5 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

light lines for dims and centerlines and such then medium line width for the interior lines and finally the bold outer line that goes around the part

Can you guys please speak English ?

[zogzogzog]

My Chaotic Labs assembly claims to have shipped - from the delivery service, I'm assuming it's basically a drop ship from China.

[billbr]

 

On 4/7/2023 at 4:53 PM, zogzogzog said:

My Chaotic Labs assembly claims to have shipped

Still waiting for mine to ship. I'm hoping they have worked out the "sloppy" tolerances that some folks have been talking about.

[Calvinx]

I have been thinking/drawing and come up with an updated lighter model with less parts to boot.

[zogzogzog]

10 hours ago, billbr said:

Still waiting for mine to ship. I'm hoping they have worked out the "sloppy" tolerances that some folks have been talking about.

Mine seems to be stuck 10 miles from my house since Thursday - left Pitney Bowes but not yet at the Post Office - hmmm...

 

[claudermilk]

20 hours ago, billbr said:

Still waiting for mine to ship. I'm hoping they have worked out the "sloppy" tolerances that some folks have been talking about.

On the weekend streams (I don't recall if Nero or Steve) apparently they have said they have an update to address that issue. Nero did say that he's not going to install the one he has because of the wobbly issue. While Steve seems happy enough so far with the one he installed. I'm going to hold off for a while--my plastic Tap is working fine for now and I can work around the 3mm shift making nozzle scrubbing hard.

[mvdveer]

7 hours ago, claudermilk said:

Steve seems happy enough so far with the one he installed. I'm going to hold off for a while

Still waiting for mine to arrive as well. Seems like a good idea to hold off for a bit. I am quite happy with the two plastic TAPS at the moment, so no need to rush into this. (But that is what I normally do)

[zogzogzog]

Mine arrived today - no detectable wobble - the rail seems well pre-loaded.

I'm pretty happy.

I'm impressed that this can be sold for $50 retail.

[Penatr8tor]

Mine is in the mail. It should be waiting for me when I get back on Monday. Looking forward to seeing if this is an improvement over the printed TAP.

[Buurman]

I wonder why I am getting discriminated by them... not even send yet... order 27 March...

Maybe they know .... maybe... they .. do......

[billbr]

Building my CANbus pieces for the 2.4 while I'm waiting. Mailman just delivered a new SKRV3EZ for the switchwire. So need to retrofit that too. Good thing the V0 is a printing monstor (albeit for small parts only)

[Buurman]

Build my TAP back up again, on SB on CANBUS... oh dear... what can go wrong...

All seems to be working properly, except for the TAP not wanting to trigger...

I remember hearing some needed to take of a few mm of the trigger part to make it work with the optical sensor?

I am using a 5V pcb for TAP with optical sensor..

[mvdveer]

1 hour ago, Buurman said:

remember hearing some needed to take of a few mm of the trigger part to make it work with the optical sensor?

Had this on both my TAP. Ended up extending the trigger point on top of the mount. I am just about certain this is your problem.

[mvdveer]

Seems post Here

[Buurman]

49 minutes ago, mvdveer said:

Seems post Here

then there is an LED on the tap PCB. A red one. When the toolhead is 'down' then the LED will be on and klipper should show 'open'. When it is lifted (ie. when probing) the LED will go off and klipper should show 'triggered'.

Seems like I have the same, red light is always on. Strange, since my Pin does look longer by default, but ok, guess I need to take it apart again and get the 3d pen out... weird to say the least, these are always the same I assume...

[RopusLongus]

Seems I will wait a few more weeks before I spend time of thinking to try tap on the SW

[Buurman]

ITs the 5V from my FLY SGT36v2 that seems to be insufficient, I need to measure it.

Took out the TAP PCB and connected it on my test power supply, and it works.

So I think the 5V supply aint so great from the CAN board.

 

UPDATE EDIT: Nope that wasnt it, just putting on the +5V and Ground wire, it triggers fine (you can see by the LED) but when putting on the PB1 trigger wire, it goes wrong.

So, something is up with this trigger wire, maybe find another pin to abuse for this purpose...