Voron TAP - New No probe mod from the Voron Design Team

[atrushing]

2 hours ago, Buurman said:

I cant believe they would stick to a part thats so badly available

I've run into a similar situation looking into the ERCF filament sensor. The only available to-spec hall effect sensor I've found is an Amazon reseller with a mini 'kit' that goes for €30!

[Calvinx]

I can only but support the sentiment by @Buurman

why make life difficult ? me,myself & I would have chosen one of These, the video quite clearly shows they implemented a custom PCB which by its definition of "custom" means that the pcb (and or the sensor) is possibly not going to be 100% readily available, why not follow their supposed own ethos i was advised of earlier of using " off the shelf parts" and use an off the shelf & READILY AVAILABLE part, using a custom pcb and some obscure and difficult to obtain sensor is a MAJOR oversight.

 

As stated by another earlier in the thread,,,,

Quote

it flies in the face of one of the design parameters the Voron team has set for themselves: no custom machined parts.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Calvinx

[smirk]

2 hours ago, Buurman said:

I cant believe they would stick to a part thats so badly available, that annoys me enough to just wait for now. 

Perhaps, they've turned evil and all these Voron printers have been intended to lure you in, then "bam" they hit you with a design for which they've cornered the market on parts?

[claudermilk]

The PCB is optional. Just like all the tool head or endstop PCBs available for Vorons. It's a convenience thing, not a requirement.

I looked for that 990 sensor to find the same issue. It is unfortunate, and I don't think it's entirely the Hug effect (Voron team announces a cool new mod and we all rush out and clear out worldwide stock in the part). I think the 666 version was mentioned as an alternative. They also said they warned the 3D printer parts vendors so they could lay in stock and be ready when the docs are released. I have a suspicion that's what is going on. Our favorite vendors Hugged the bigger suppliers already.

I have the rail on its way, and will wait for the BOM to release to grab the sensor from one of the vendors I use. I'm not in a huge hurry--this is definitely an early-next-year project. Too much holiday production to do for taking the printer offline right now.

[mvdveer]

5 hours ago, claudermilk said:

They also said they warned the 3D printer parts vendors so they could lay in stock and be ready when the docs are released

Yep, you may be on to something, but then There are no huge Voron Suppliers in Australia and won't account for the lack of stock down under

[heribertl]

I assume OPB990P51Z would also be okay. The difference between T and P are the mounting taps. T has two, P only one. I think Badnoop shows in the video at 1:10:09 the P version. And the OPB990P51Z is available at mouser. You find it using the mouser no 828-OPB990P51Z.

[Rayboy1234]

3 hours ago, mvdveer said:

Yep, you may be on to something, but then There are no huge Voron Suppliers in Australia and won't account for the lack of stock down under

There should be a reasonable debate if it is in the spirit of Voron and benefit to the voron community to release these designs to vendors first whereby they clear the field of commodity parts before users have access to them.  Essentially forces users and early adopters to use vendors and pay the vendor tax. No problem for some users but for users with Reprap mindset it is very annoying.

It will be an interesting drama if vendors cleared the global stock out in preparation of the announcement and self-sourcing users are out of luck getting the BOM parts in the short term.

Here is the octopart inventory history for the Optek 990T51Z this year:

Edited November 16, 2022 by Rayboy1234

[mvdveer]

2 hours ago, Rayboy1234 said:

Here is the octopart inventory history for the Optek 990T51Z this year:

A picture is worth more than a 100 words - Very, very interesting

[claudermilk]

That would be an interesting debate @Rayboy1234. I had that thought myself, but then when I've been been self-sourcing parts I found that going with the nice vendors I often came out ahead over the big distributor vendors like Digikey or Mouser. 

I could get one of the Optek variations at Mouser, but the shipping is 2x the price of the part. The niche vendors aren't usually that bad, and I'd prefer to support them anyway. That's just my take.

I'll just note my experience self-sourcing my entire Trident build. I looked at DigiKey, Mouser, etc. for a number of the parts. Then compared to the smaller vendors such as KB-3D, Fabreeko, West3D, etc. In every case I ended up going with the smaller vendors as I found overall it was less expensive. So I haven't seen a "vendor tax" per se, but of course YMMV depending on where you are located.

[Buurman]

11 minutes ago, claudermilk said:

I could get one of the Optek variations at Mouser, but the shipping is 2x the price of the part. The niche vendors aren't usually that bad, and I'd prefer to support them anyway. That's just my take.

I agree there, I rather have that Fermio would buy a bunch, and sell them with a little profit, as long its a fair profit. 

But if this was the case, I would already expect them to have the part on sale, why not.. I would.

[claudermilk]

23 hours ago, Buurman said:

But if this was the case, I would already expect them to have the part on sale, why not.. I would.

From the Voron Live it sounds like they are waiting for the official release of the project. I'm fine with that.

BTW I got my 50mm rail from Fabreeko (I guess they jumped the gun a bit on that one). It's so cute. 

[Buurman]

17 hours ago, claudermilk said:

BTW I got my 50mm rail from Fabreeko (I guess they jumped the gun a bit on that one). It's so cute. 

Same here from fermio, it’s very cute indeed, they already included a piece of plastic rail, since there is no space for protective stops.. so you can slide the seat of the rail onto the plastic one.

[mvdveer]

On 11/19/2022 at 1:30 AM, claudermilk said:

BTW I got my 50mm rail from Fabreeko (I guess they jumped the gun a bit on that one). It's so cute. 

Still waiting though ordered……..

23 hours ago, Buurman said:

Same here from fermio,

And waiting………..

[smirk]

So.....

[claudermilk]

Steve Builds just put one together on his Sunday stream. All the way from swapping his V2.4 over to CW2 through pushing plastic. There's some fiddly heatsets to put in, but overall it didn't look too bad. Granted I was a bit distracted in the early stages as I was finishing up rebuilding my XY joints; I'm definitely rewatching before building mine.

 

[Buurman]

Thanks @claudermilk and good news... optics are in

[smirk]

1 hour ago, Buurman said:

good news... optics are in

...and a mere snip at $22,000 a piece, mates-rates  for TeamFDM. Didn't realise you were cornering the market in them

[zogzogzog]

I'd find it hard to believe that either of those plateaus and subsequent drops are from Voron vendors.  I wouldn't think that they would, or would even want to put multiple thousands of these in stock between themselves.  Maybe a few dozen or a hundred maybe...

That stock level and those changes are very typical for parts that are part of a BOM for actively manufactured products - especially given the current supply chain tightness of the last couple of years.  I'm figuring Voron users are a rounding error in that chart.

I can't rant against Digikey or Mouser for what they charge - they stock millions of parts thousands to millions deep in many cases and are willing to sell folks like us 1, or 2, or 10.  Back in the day, now I sound old, there were many parts that could only be bought by the lot or later the reel from major parts distributors and folks like us couldn't ever get a hold of them (well maybe a few as "samples" if you sounded legitimate).  We're in a maker paradise now with access to almost any conceivable part in near singular quantities - it costs some extra but we can get it.  I'll pay something extra to have it brought to the door almost right next to my bench and not cost me the gas or time to get it.  I live in the Chicago area - it's not like the middle of nowhere - and there are few places that would stock or even order that stuff within reasonable driving distance so I'm super glad that places like Digikey, Mouser, and the equivalents around the world exist and will sell us stuff because it wasn't always that way.

 

[smirk]

6 hours ago, zogzogzog said:

Back in the day, now I sound old,

Perhaps, but you're in good company

You make a very good and valid point. I'm in the UK and local electronics specialists are rarer than Optek 990T51Z hen's teeth so I too am grateful for things like digikey and mouser (always amazed how they can ship from the States with no additional charges often cheaper than I can buy here). My observation is, as with so many things, we forget quickly and are perhaps "spolied" whether it's next-day delivery (or even same day) or buying exotic parts in singular quantities, the world most definitely wasn't always like that.

What with the routine use of absestos, life expectancies 20 years lower than they are today, unregulated additives in food perhaps us old buggers are wrong about the good-old days. Need to balance that against the fact modern music doesn't have a proper beat and you can't make out the words...and don't get me started on the youth of today......garn...

[mvdveer]

44 minutes ago, smirk said:

I'm in the UK and local electronics specialists are rarer than Optek 990T51Z hen's teeth so I too am grateful for things like digikey and mouser

Wish I could say the same for here down under. Shipping from the USA is at times twice the price of the part. But then I can't complain - I have a good supply of 4GB Raspi pi's. The price you pay for being at the bottom of the world I guess. 

 

46 minutes ago, smirk said:

old buggers are wrong about the good-old days

Nah, don't think so

 

46 minutes ago, smirk said:

modern music doesn't have a proper beat

or melody, or words or.........

 

47 minutes ago, smirk said:

don't get me started on the youth of today......garn...

No I won't 

[Buurman]

20 hours ago, smirk said:

a mere snip at $22,000 a piece

I think I paid like 6 bucks or so..... maybe 8 with shipping.

[Buurman]

4 hours ago, mvdveer said:

The price you pay for being at the bottom of the world I guess

I see it as the top, you start the day earlier than all of us!!

[claudermilk]

Now to burst @Buurman's bubble. I saw a warning that the optical sensor part numbers may (are going to?) change from the nice list seen on Steve's stream. Though those are what he and the other testers used so they clearly work fine.

I took the opportunity to directly ask badnoob about the CNC dovetail and he stated he hadn't tried them. My guess is it didn't occur to him. Just used parts he's familiar with. Maybe an opportunity for a later user mod?

Now, on to the important GoM kvetching.  Yeah, that "music" that makes your ears bleed. Though on the whole in many way I'm not worried about the kids, they're gonna do alright.

[Calvinx]

3 hours ago, claudermilk said:

 

I took the opportunity to directly ask badnoob about the CNC dovetail and he stated he hadn't tried them. My guess is it didn't occur to him. Just used parts he's familiar with. Maybe an opportunity for a later user mod?

 

I have purchased one and it is literally going to be on a slow boat from China to Europe listed to be with me in Cyprus by 22nd of Jan 2023 once the files are released i will draw one up and once the part arrives i will test then report

[Buurman]

17 hours ago, claudermilk said:

Now to burst @Buurman's bubble

NOT my BUBBLE!!!  well see where we end up, its good they are still thinking about it, but ... now.. get me the STL's