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Voron 2.4 R2 Build Diary


Poisson
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I haven't started my build yet per se, I am still in the pre phases, waiting for parts kit to arrive, preparing to print ABS on my current printer, gathering some extra tools. I thought I'd immortalize a nice laugh for everyone in my very first post here.

My current printer that I will be printing the ABS parts on is a Creality CR-10s PRO V2. I just completed my final upgrade to it over the weekend, installing a Wham Bam flexible bed system. This is a magnetic base with a spring steel sheet coated with PEX on the top. (PEX is just their fancy PEI).

Last night I tried to do my first test print with it and no matter what I did, I could not get a good first layer adhesion. I went through all the troubleshooting steps and to even get any sort of adhesion I had to lower my z offset so much it made a terrible first layer. On my 3rd of 4th attempt at googling for a suggestion I found a reddit post where someone was having first layer problems on the same bed (Wham Bam) and in the thread someone mentioned removing the protective plastic sheet off the PEX before printing.

Lo and behold I had left the plastic sheet on the PEX. I removed it and like magic, it prints perfectly without any z offset adjustments or anything.

I'm going to call this my first poo brain moment in this process, and I suspect at least some more poo brain moments to come.

 

Anyone here's some pictures of the enclosure I built for printing ABS on the current printer:

PXL_20221009_215547888.thumb.jpg.ff25254653bf821d958c748394e5d799.jpgPXL_20221009_215549427.thumb.jpg.ea4c15246531f566f79f489c59d16e98.jpg

 

Any recommendations for printing ABS on PEX/PEI? This'll be my first time printing ABS at all.

Edited by Poisson
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  • Poisson changed the title to Voron 2.4 R2 Build Diary
4 hours ago, Poisson said:

Any recommendations for printing ABS on PEX/PEI? This'll be my first time printing ABS

All I print on. Only recommendation I can make is to clean your build plate with 98% Isopropyl alcohol after EACH and EVERY print and you should bee printing away without problems. Adhesion generally very good without any additives such as hairspray, glue sticks, etc. Since all my build plates are PEI, I have NEVER used any of these, just the alcohol cleaning.

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Good old "poo brain", I suffer from the same, that and fat sausage fingers!

I don't think there is anything particularly fancy required to pirnt ABS on PEI/PEX (well not any more than any other filament). Just observe the recommended print settings regards bed temperature and the like. When I first printed ABS on my home-brew printer, for my V0, once I got my carboard enclosure sorted I was pleased with how "easy" it was. "Easy" is naturally a relative term based on the various horror stories I had heard about how difficult ABS was to print but I did not have any more issues with ABS then I'd have with any other filament (there's also plenty of scope for issues with any filament). In fact I quite enjoy printing in ABS now.

For me the biggest tip I can give (and I learned the hard way after printing an entire set of Voron parts) is to get things like the extrusion multiplier (also called flow rate) dialed in correctly. My initial parts looked nice but just did not fit together well. I would strongly recommend printing some of the test parts that you can find in STL section of the Voron github. Those will let you test whether you've got things dialed in correctly without burning an entire set of parts. Although,you'll always burn through more filament than you might want or expect when tuning things 😉

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Just now, mvdveer said:

 DO NOT USE ACETONE

Acetone degrades PEI (and melts ABS). I would second @mvdveer sensible treatment of the build-plate. (Having said that, 😳I do  use it (acetone) very (very very) occassionally to revive a PEI sheet on it's last legs, but's that only after I've scuffed it with wire-wool, and even then it's only a light wipe.....again I can attest to learning the hard way and completely knackering a PEI-sheet with over-user of acetone.)  However, guess cleanliness is next to godliness when it comes to build plates.

 

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ABS will print on PEI just fine. That's what just about everyone uses these days.

For cleaning, 19%+ IPA is stage one cleaning, done every plate or every few plates as needed. Stage two is warm water and dish soap to clean up a messy plate. Stage three is acetone, to be used sparingly and only after stage one and two have failed. 

I've found I needed to prep a new plate with at least a brillo pad first. A couple actually needed 600 grit sandpaper before they started working.

Of course , remove the protective film before any of this. Don't ask how I know that... 🙄🤦‍♂️

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I got my exhaust setup in my printing room, so that is ready for the ABS testing / printing. ABS should be in tomorrow so I can get started.

In the mean time, I am trying to iron out one kink I'm having with printing just PLA that I don't want to transfer over to the ABS. I am getting a layer shift / some gunk where the walls build up from the base of this round model. It's always at that one spot - where the walls start building and the base ends. I've managed to make it a little better by slowing down the print, but I can not get it to go away. Does anyone have any advice? I use cura.1799829326_PXL_20221011_164946780.MP(1).thumb.jpg.a9d9f442653f424b625f861a26c3c077.jpgPXL_20221011_164952885_MP.thumb.jpg.ae36d6f5042a8d522a6417a52c2fab6d.jpg

PXL_20221011_204903858.thumb.jpg.67871133dda47edb92d8bcb892354cf7.jpg

Just to be a little more descriptive, there is what looks like a slight layer shift at this layer around the entire circumference of the circle, and the blob always happens at the same part of the circle, the blob does not extend around the entire circumference. This blob is not at the seam.

Edited by Poisson
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1 hour ago, Poisson said:

Does anyone have any advice? I use cura.

I was going to say experiment with your "Z Seam Alignment" settings (in the Walls section) but reading over your description I don't think the issue is the seam. If you rotate the model or try a different model (say a hollow square)  does the issue follow the rotation or stay in the same position (on the different model). Just curious if it could be mechanical.

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25 minutes ago, smirk said:

I was going to say experiment with your "Z Seam Alignment" settings (in the Walls section) but reading over your description I don't think the issue is the seam. If you rotate the model or try a different model (say a hollow square)  does the issue follow the rotation or stay in the same position (on the different model). Just curious if it could be mechanical.

I am trying it flipped 180 degrees now.

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2 hours ago, smirk said:

I was going to say experiment with your "Z Seam Alignment" settings (in the Walls section) but reading over your description I don't think the issue is the seam. If you rotate the model or try a different model (say a hollow square)  does the issue follow the rotation or stay in the same position (on the different model). Just curious if it could be mechanical.

180 degree flip made no difference. For another model I tried printing my first voron cube with my speeds and accel cranked back up high as well. Looks pretty damn nice except for some very slight deforming in two of the bottom corners:

 

PXL_20221012_011109218.thumb.jpg.e9532f7f5707953ba7ffc7f983496b87.jpgPXL_20221012_011115216_MP.thumb.jpg.4f04420c931ad13fcd8478ba94b6e144.jpg

PXL_20221012_011016459.thumb.jpg.fb312c0b98bb3e7c020667b85d08cb65.jpgPXL_20221012_011004395_MP.thumb.jpg.4b66887b9ddf22dad9e92fb355cf0a9e.jpg

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I printed another cube at a little more sane speeds, and the deforming of the corners is practically gone as well. So it seems some strange behavior on a round model for me, not sure what is causing it. I'm going to just assume it's not going to translate to my abs printing, but I guess we'll see when I start doing tuning and test prints.

 

 

Edited by Poisson
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I was thinking about this, my initial thoughts were around a mechanical problem (something binding) if it did not follow your 180 degree rotation. However, seeing that Voron cube with it's saggy/rough corners reminded me of cooling issues on a benchy's prow. Certainly if you were printing at slower speeds there'd be more cooling time on these awkard corners. With Cura you've not only got your absolute speed settings you've also got your "Minimum Layer Time" - granted that's probably not an issue on something as large as a Voron Cube (normally it would benefit small of fine details). As with all things it's a balancing act.

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1 hour ago, smirk said:

I was thinking about this, my initial thoughts were around a mechanical problem (something binding) if it did not follow your 180 degree rotation. However, seeing that Voron cube with it's saggy/rough corners reminded me of cooling issues on a benchy's prow. Certainly if you were printing at slower speeds there'd be more cooling time on these awkard corners. With Cura you've not only got your absolute speed settings you've also got your "Minimum Layer Time" - granted that's probably not an issue on something as large as a Voron Cube (normally it would benefit small of fine details). As with all things it's a balancing act.

Funny you mention issues with the benchy's prow. After I switched to klipper and started trying to push my speeds on this printer, I had this problem with the benchy prow deforming because the single 4020 blower fan and cooling duct system was just not enough to keep up. I then switched over to dual high CFM 5015 fans with the Hero Me fan duct system, so cooling is pretty strong now. This allowed me to print the benchies at high speeds with no deforming at 75% fan speed. When I was doing prints of this circular model I had fan speeds at 75%, then all the way up to 100% with little change.

Perhaps minimal layer time would be something to explore.

Edited by Poisson
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Been running through ABS tuning tests the past few hours. Enclosure is doing great keeping it a nice 40c+ inside. Done first layer, temp tower, retraction distance and speed tower. Running Pressure advance now, and then flow.

Should be able to start printing some of the final test parts tomorrow and maybe get start on printing Voron parts!

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Righly or wrongly I just always used the settings that VoronDesign recommended for their parts (so page 4 of the Assembly Manual "part printing guidlines") for doing any test pieces.

6 hours ago, Poisson said:

not taking well to the heat

How you gettng on with the heat issue? I'm presuming the electronnics for the printer are in the base and therefore inside the enclosure? Wondering if it could be a driver on the MCU that is overheating rather than the stepper motor itself? Although, if that were the case I'd probably expect horrendous layer shifting, perhaps electronics are OK and the stepper itself is the source.

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4 hours ago, smirk said:

Righly or wrongly I just always used the settings that VoronDesign recommended for their parts (so page 4 of the Assembly Manual "part printing guidlines") for doing any test pieces.

I'll take a look, thank you!

Quote

How you gettng on with the heat issue? I'm presuming the electronnics for the printer are in the base and therefore inside the enclosure? Wondering if it could be a driver on the MCU that is overheating rather than the stepper motor itself? Although, if that were the case I'd probably expect horrendous layer shifting, perhaps electronics are OK and the stepper itself is the source.

Electronics are in the base, which isn't great for it being inside the enclosure.

However It really seems like the noise is coming from the area of the toolhead itself so I am not sure what it could be. Something rubbing from the direct drive or hero me fan duct maybe. Neither of them are stock. Or maybe these cheap v-wheels are already going out? I will have to investigate further.

Edited by Poisson
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Printing out my test cube now, was reading instructions about testing fitting the bearings and I was like "I don't have any of these size bearings". Then I realized they are parts of the parts list for the printer kit, guess it's good thing it's coming today.

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If the noise changes with print speed (all other things being equal e.g. fan speed) then it could point to wheels/belts in the motion system. If you can capture a recording of the sound and post it to the forum then it might prompt some thoughts from  other members. It can be challenging tracking down that odd noise ;-(

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Looking forward to some things I need to deal with, what are recommendations for cleaning and lubricating the linear rails? I ordered some Mobilux EP2 for lubing, but do they need to be cleaned first? If so, what to clean them with, any sort of degreaser? Been seeing some conflicting things watching youtube videos / guides on this.

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