OneStepAhead's Voron Trident 350mm Build - The Killer Bee

[OneStepAhead]

I did get the belts done, I'll post a picture later. That was my first time seeing in person how CoreXY works, and it's quite an impressive design. I installed flat pei on the backside of my Formbot plate. Not easy, but I got it bubble free. A cold laminator would of been nice, and maybe something I'll invest in. There are some scratches in the plate however that can be seen, which is fine for my purposes. HoneyBadger heater is installed, and I used JB Weld Epoxy as I didn't have RTV to attach the thermal fuse, its rated up to 500F so it should be fine. Nice to have a heater that goes all the way to the edge, as I will be printing right up to it frequently. 

 

[Simon2.4]

21 hours ago, Simon2.4 said:

It's current that produces heat.

btw this is also true for your motor drivers

[SteveThatcher]

21 hours ago, Simon2.4 said:

If the motors are rated for 48v, they will produce less heat because for a given power delivered, the current will be much less. p (W) = U (V) x I (A) It's current that produces heat. If motors are overvolted like applying 48v to 24v motors, there are other considerations that may produce more heat, like the windings resistance being too low. I (A) = U (V) / R (ohm)

of note, the stepper motors are not rated for 48 volts. They are rated for a specific current (2.5 amps) and voltage (2.5 volts). The key thing about the stepper drivers is that they do constant current which means that the coil resistance goes to its working voltage rather than to the power supply level with their rated current. You do need a stepper driver cable of handling 48 volts which the 5160qhv Stepper Driver does.  What a higher voltage does for you is to increase performance because the higher voltage can raise the current faster in the coil to its setting (coil inductance fights the current flow). Most of the heat comes from the 6.25 watts of energy from the voltage and current.

[Simon2.4]

Just now, SteveThatcher said:

of note, the stepper motors are not rated for 48 volts. They are rated for a specific current (2.5 amps) and voltage (2.5 volts). The key thing about the stepper drivers is that they do constant current which means that the coil resistance goes to its working voltage rather than to the power supply level with their rated current. You do need a stepper driver cable of handling 48 volts which the 5160qhv Stepper Driver does.  What a higher voltage does for you is to increase performance because the higher voltage can raise the current faster in the coil to its setting (coil inductance fights the current flow). Most of the heat comes from the 6.25 watts of energy from the voltage and current.

OK listen to this guy  I'm pulling my info from induction motor knowledge. It seems it does not quite apply the way I though here. Thanks @SteveThatcher

So what I said is half true, with 48v, if he uses the machine in a 'normal' way, the motors will pull way less current naturally?  how about holding current, won't that raise dramatically?

[SteveThatcher]

2 hours ago, Simon2.4 said:

OK listen to this guy  I'm pulling my info from induction motor knowledge. It seems it does not quite apply the way I though here. Thanks @SteveThatcher

So what I said is half true, with 48v, if he uses the machine in a 'normal' way, the motors will pull way less current naturally?  how about holding current, won't that raise dramatically?

the motors will draw exactly what you set the current to on the driver. The voltage only affects the rise time of the "charging" of the inductor coil. The neat thing about constant current is that the voltage will rise to whatever the resistance of the motor coil is to allow that specific current to flow. Holding current is again whatever current value that is set in the driver. In the old days (decades ago...), a high wattage resistor was used in series with the coils to limit current. The resistor value had to be calculated to limit the current to the value the stepper motor was designed for based on the total voltage supplied (normal ohms law). You also had only 200 or 400 steps per revolution depending on the stepper motor - 1.8 degrees or 0.9 degrees - not including specialty steppers that had other angles)

Micro stepping the motor involves the driver balancing the current flow to the coils in order to "pull/push" the rotor inside to a point between the normal 200 steps per revolution points.

Edited April 5, 2022 by SteveThatcher

[Simon2.4]

41 minutes ago, SteveThatcher said:

the motors will draw exactly what you set the current to on the driver.

ok I get it, so in all practicality, higher voltage changes nothing until you try to get more power out of the motors. so no change in work = no change in dissipated heat. 

@OneStepAhead sorry for hijacking but I think it's relevant

[OneStepAhead]

1 hour ago, SteveThatcher said:

the motors will draw exactly what you set the current to on the driver. The voltage only affects the rise time of the "charging" of the inductor coil. The neat thing about constant current is that the voltage will rise to whatever the resistance of the motor coil is to allow that specific current to flow. Holding current is again whatever current value that is set in the driver. In the old days (decades ago...), a high wattage resistor was used in series with the coils to limit current. The resistor value had to be calculated to limit the current to the value the stepper motor was designed for based on the total voltage supplied (normal ohms law). You also had only 200 or 400 steps per revolution depending on the stepper motor - 1.8 degrees or 0.9 degrees - not including specialty steppers that had other angles)

Micro stepping the motor involves the driver balancing the current flow to the coils in order to "pull/push" the rotor inside to a point between the normal 200 steps per revolution points.

Thanks guys, I'll definitely circle back on this once I get to that point, you both know a lot more about electricity than I do. Here is an overhead view of my current progress:

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by OneStepAhead

[OneStepAhead]

I'm on to the electronics. I've played around with a few different positions and arrived at the picture below. The pcb at top right is an ERCF Easy board. Rigged up a DIN mount for my LRS150-48, although it won't actually be in use until my 5160qhv stepper drivers arrive. For now I'm going to build this with the kit Moons motors on 24v system. Im no electrical guru by any stretch, and the documentation in the manual leaves a lot to be desired. Luckily there are many resources for asking questions about these things!

Also, got the Nevermore printed and put together. Used the 1.8 design so it will be mounted vertical with a 45 degree output. I've also decided to do the bed fan mod, where I mount 4 5015's under the bed to better spread the heat and increase chamber temps. It seems a lot smarter than rigging up a ptc heater, which is frowned upon by the Voron team. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by OneStepAhead

[OneStepAhead]

Some more goodies showed up today! My Mellow Carbon Fiber X extrusion, with some 5mm CF Rod for shaving weight using the pin mod. I didn't realize Mellow included 5x40mm CF pins already to do XY joints, so I didn't need to order additional CF Rods, I guess I can use them if I want to pin mod the rest of the rig (I dont). 

[Simon2.4]

11 minutes ago, OneStepAhead said:

Some more goodies showed up today! My Mellow Carbon Fiber X extrusion, with some 5mm CF Rod for shaving weight using the pin mod. I didn't realize Mellow included 5x40mm CF pins already to do XY joints, so I didn't need to order additional CF Rods, I guess I can use them if I want to pin mod the rest of the rig (I dont). 

 

This is something I've been drooling over for a while... If I may add a suggestion: for the screws you still need to put, build it with titanium screws for the ultimate minmax gantry. When I do mine, one day, I'm going all in.

https://chinatiscrew.aliexpress.com/store/314699

 

[OneStepAhead]

13 hours ago, Simon2.4 said:

This is something I've been drooling over for a while... If I may add a suggestion: for the screws you still need to put, build it with titanium screws for the ultimate minmax gantry. When I do mine, one day, I'm going all in.

https://chinatiscrew.aliexpress.com/store/314699

I've been looking into it, as the bag of bolts they sent is heavier than the CF tube, by a lot! Seems silly to send CF pins, and then a2 steel bolts. I currently have a cart full of aluminum hardware from pro-bolt, as Ti seemed insanely expensive, from the US always. Thanks for the link. Here is where this mod is discussed by the way https://github.com/Woki-Leo/Carbonfiber-X-Axis/blob/main/README.md

Edited April 15, 2022 by OneStepAhead

[Rainforestnomad]

Wow those carbon fiber extrusions are gorgeous. I always equate carbon fiber=performance. The rods are replacing the bolts in the pulley blocks is that right? I notice that after 60 deg chamber temps the carbon fiber will begin to soften. Is this a concern with enclosed Vorons?

Edited April 15, 2022 by Rainforestnomad

[OneStepAhead]

2 hours ago, Rainforestnomad said:

Wow those carbon fiber extrusions are gorgeous. I always equate carbon fiber=performance. The rods are replacing the bolts in the pulley blocks is that right? I notice that after 60 deg chamber temps the carbon fiber will begin to soften. Is this a concern with enclosed Vorons?

I found that interesting too, as I thought properly annealed CF can withstand much higher. I guess I'll have to set some code to monitor chamber temps and if it hits 58 I'll turn on the exhaust hepa. But no, most people aren't hitting 60c without adding a chamber heater. 

 

Yes, the 5mm CF rods replace the M5x40 bolts that are used for the pulleys in the XY Joints. For the rest of the hardware I'll use aluminum most likely. Haven't decided If I'll do a FFC mod or Umbilical for the wires...

Edited April 15, 2022 by OneStepAhead

[OneStepAhead]

Got some wiring done today, still need to sleeve the rest of the wire going under the DIN rails. I'm not going to run V+/V- from the 48v PSU into the Motor +/- on the Octopus Pro yet, as I don't have the 5160qhv drivers. So for now it will draw the power for the motors off the board 24v power. I can set jumpers under each stepper driver to draw power from the board OR motor in power. In my case, only 2 of the stepper drivers will be using 48v. I also probably dont need this ERCF Easy board (top right in pic), as I have 2 extra stepper driver slots (where as a 2.4 would not), but I'm going to use it anyway since I bought it, and it looks simpler. 

The DIN's aren't screwed down yet, nor is the Octopus, so stuff looks a little crooked at the moment..

Edited April 15, 2022 by OneStepAhead

[OneStepAhead]

On 4/14/2022 at 5:19 PM, Simon2.4 said:

This is something I've been drooling over for a while... If I may add a suggestion: for the screws you still need to put, build it with titanium screws for the ultimate minmax gantry. When I do mine, one day, I'm going all in.

https://chinatiscrew.aliexpress.com/store/314699

Whoppingochard's shop carries Ti X Gantry hardware. There was only 2 sets left and I grabbed one of them. So if anyone else is looking to shave some weight, get it while you can: https://www.lightweightlabware.com/shop/p/titanium-x-gantry-screw-set

[Demosth]

2 hours ago, OneStepAhead said:

Whoppingochard's shop carries Ti X Gantry hardware. There was only 2 sets left and I grabbed one of them. So if anyone else is looking to shave some weight, get it while you can: https://www.lightweightlabware.com/shop/p/titanium-x-gantry-screw-set

@OneStepAhead - Please add this vendor to the links section, I had no idea it existed! - Thanks for sharing!