So it starts - Voron 0.1 build

[claudermilk]

5 hours ago, mvdveer said:

Find Nero3D channel very helpful and informative.

https://www.youtube.com/c/Nero3D

Nero is incredibly informative.

Also look up Steve Builds. https://www.youtube.com/c/SteveBuilds

[mvdveer]

7 hours ago, claudermilk said:

Also look up Steve Builds. https://www.youtube.com/c/SteveBuilds

Thanks - have been following him and subscribed to the channel, as well as Michael form Teachingtech

[smirk]

16 hours ago, claudermilk said:

Also look up Steve Builds. https://www.youtube.com/c/SteveBuilds

I don't think I've stumbled across him before, and he's got Charlie! I like cats but one called sic Charley is a real nostalgia blast

7 hours ago, mvdveer said:

Michael form Teachingtech

Follow him as well.

[claudermilk]

Charlie is the actual boss on that stream. 

[smirk]

Managed to get my PICO sandwich working, after a fashion as it's not connected to the machine yet but it displays the PI Zero system temperature in Mainsail!. Don't laugh at the bodgey mount I bodged together, in all the versions of me across the entirety of the multiverse not one of them is a designer (possibly young, possibly not grumpy but definitely not a designer). Despite the hunch that running cooling across the boards would be best, I've changed the plan to  mount the cooling fan over the boards and hope that will keep it cool. That way I can use a reasonably powerful 80mm fan rather than a gutless 40mm fan.

I have realised just how decrepit that I am becoming, clearly my brain cells are dying at a fast enough rate that I loose a skill/ability within weeks if I'm not using it. (note to self: Breath in, breath out, Breath in....). What with various things I probably haven't picked up a soldering iron for 6 months since my last Z80 or arduino project (can't remember which) and I could tell! Soldering the GPIO connectors onto the PI was arguably the worst soldering job I've ever done (which is saying something). The fact the damned thing still works is testament to the quality of their product (certainly not my workmanship)

Anyway, when I powered it on, all the magic black smoke remained inside.

Something else I don't particularly like about the PICO - flashing it. It will be more of a faff than loading up a new SD card. You have to jumper it into "Boot" mode, and press the reset button. You can  guess where the boot pins and reset button are?  Right under the PI, so you need to remove the PI. Set the jumpers, press the reset switch and connect the USB. It is nice that you simply copy the new firmware onto the board as a file (over USB), rather than having to use a specialist loader or some other black magick but that is kind of ruined by the faff.

I also want to change the PICO power/serial cable. It's too short for what I want. I had really wanted to orientate the Raspberry PI so the GPIO pins were on the outside of the [PICO] board - partly for cable routing and partly as that would be the side supported by the stand-offs so things might have been a bit more stable when plugging things into the GPIO. I ended up putting insulating tape across the bottom of the PI partly to cover the horrific soldering job but also just in case the board moved too close to something conductive on the PICO board when I was fiddling with GPIO pins. But making longer cables is a job for another day.

The next part of the plan is to hook up the machine and start seeing if I can get it to play nice. Once I know it works then I'll fit it all properly together.

 

 

 

[mvdveer]

1 hour ago, smirk said:

I also want to change the PICO power/serial cable. It's too short for what I want. I had really wanted to orientate the Raspberry PI so the GPIO pins were on the outside of the [PICO] board - partly for cable routing and partly as that would be the side supported by the stand-offs so things might have been a bit more stable when plugging things into the GPIO. I ended up putting insulating tape across the bottom of the PI partly to cover the horrific soldering job but also just in case the board moved too close to something conductive on the PICO board when I was fiddling with GPIO pins. But making longer cables is a job for another day.

Love the concept and the execution. This should be the future of the electronics bay for the Voron 0. Why not use Capon tape rather than insulation tape. Thinner and less chance of rubbing against the pico components. Think I might steal this idea from your the next V0 build. Always just had in the back of my mind whether the Pi0 was going to deliver enough oomph, especially when adding an exhaust fan. Looks great though.

[mvdveer]

2 hours ago, smirk said:

hat with various things I probably haven't picked up a soldering iron for 6 months since my last Z80 or arduino project (can't remember which) and I could tell! Soldering the GPIO connectors onto the PI was arguably the worst soldering job I've ever done (which is saying something)

I share your pain, My problem is eyesight - those connectors are way to small and too many. I came across a product that I started using for this purpose. It is a solder paste you apply to the connectors, then use a heat gun to solder in place. Done two pi Zero's this way and connectors still holding.There are many different brands available. Problem is it needs to be stored refrigerated and shelf life is only about 6 months. Not expensive - AUD 15 for 15 g which is plenty

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by mvdveer
Spelling correction

[smirk]

8 hours ago, mvdveer said:

Why not use Capon tape rather than insulation tape

Grumble, grumble, couldn't find my Kapton tape could I, I've got dozen of rolls of all different sizes. It was my first thought but could I find it? No! They'll probably use it to wrap my coffin in when the clear the house.......

[smirk]

Initial tests of the new PICO controller actually have me content. I was going to say "impressed" but when I realised that my expectations had  been clearly set at this thing melting through the floor and heading to China, then given it's doing what it should be doing (running a printer) then "impressed" is too strong a word but, on the initial look, I am happy with it.

Continuing the "it lives" theme started by @mvdveer I've included a wobbley-cam video (with rubbish sound, ignore the sound). It's just going through the movement test I used when I was originally finding out how bad the  SKR E3 (for me) was. I've cut the movement short as I didn't want a gigabyte long video for posting. On my overheating SKR E3, this test would [surprisingly quickly] result in the head  slapping into the side of the printer as it progressively lost track of where it was and the drivers started to malfunction due to over heating.

 

 

 

You can just make out the tangle of wires at the back of the video (that's the PICO sandwich lying on the floor. I've not fitted any active cooling to the sandwich it's just relying on the PICO heatsink and a heasink on the PI zero CPU.

So far, the movements have remained accurate and the temperatures seem fine. I'm using the system temperature on the PI as a proxy for the overall sandwich temperature as it's part of that stack, and it seems to be holding quite steady at < 40C

 

I think I will need to tidy things up a little, whilst I don't want to cut things to length and tie them down until I've satisfied myself with the operation. I think I'm pushing my luck with the trailing X-stop cable

[smirk]

Don't have my contactless thermometer - haven't misplaced it, just lent it out. However, out of interest I stuck my finger onto the SKR PICO's heat-sink. I didn't swear, and I still have skin on my finger which from experience indicates it's less than 90C but more than 40C. I'm guessing it's around 50C. That proves what a poor proxy for sandwich temperature the PI is,but it does show the [PICO] Heat-sink is working but for reliable operation long-term it will need active cooling.

[Penatr8tor]

Smirk...

Can you share the code for Pi temp so I can add it to my Mainsail Temp dialog?

[smirk]

@Penatr8tor absolutely:

#####################################################################
# Add raspberry PI system temperature to the MainSail display
#####################################################################
[temperature_sensor raspberry_pi]
sensor_type: temperature_host
min_temp: 10
max_temp: 100

I didn't need to load anything extra on the PI

[Penatr8tor]

Thanks,

Dumb question but want to make sure... This goes in my printer.cfg correct? There is the option to enter code in the mainsail UI under temp settings.

 

[smirk]

Not a dumb question - I was suitably vague and always worth checking but yes it goes in the printer.cfg. I don't think it particularly matters where, just depends on how you've chosen to organise your file.

 

[smirk]

Well my PI is only a couple of degrees warmer than ambient at the moment.

[Penatr8tor]

Thanks, I thought so. I'll find a spot for it. 

I've never really worried that much about the temp of the Pi but, it's good to monitor stuff. Plus more gauges is cooler 

[smirk]

6 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

I've never really worried that much about the temp of the Pi

Before my first V0 i would have agreed with you but I just  had too many little funnies (PI resetting, locking up generally crapping out) until I whacked a 80mm cooling fan on the back. We're not talking ridiculously high temps but it was definitely north of 48C

But as you say graphs are cool but I do have a hankering (showing my age) for blinken lights.

[Penatr8tor]

Thanks Smirk...

Worked like a charm. I just inserted the code after the Fan section. Mine is running at about 48-49 ish. I think I have a stick on heat sink somewhere. I might give that a try just to see if it helps with the temp.

[Demosth]

Thank you for all the progress updates and for sharing your solutions. This will be a huge help for others who are doing similar builds!

[smirk]

On 7/16/2022 at 12:18 PM, smirk said:

haven't misplaced it, just lent it out

Well got my contactless thermometer gun thing back. With day-time temperatures back to a more manageable mid-20C rather than north of 30C (86F+++), I thought I'd try some more experiments with the PICO sandwich and be a little more scientific rather than the still-got-skin-on-my-finger test. Just running the same movement test as I was before for 3hours, still without any active cooling and with the sandwich lying on the floor (in a tangle of wires). One important thing, I guess, is since the printer is only part assembled there's no active heating (hotend/bed) and no chamber to add to the heat, so there's nothing bleeding through the back panel into the electronics bay. Also, had the motors at "0.8" for their run_current with the hold_current disabled (as per recommendations).

What I can say is that my finger is a reasonably accurate temperature measurement device. (All temps in C, and time in microfortnights)

 

Time	Room Temp	PICO	PI
11:00	21.0	21.8	32.2
11:35	21.0	41.9	45.6
12:00	21.0	43.7	45.1
12:30	21.5	52.3	45.6
13:00	22.4	52.1	47.2

The tests did run until 14:00 but I got caught in a work meeting and couldn't dash off and do a quick measurement. I can say that half-an-hour after the printer stopped moving that  the PICO heatsink was back down to 33C

			Naturally things like running the motors at a higher rate and having an active heat source (hot end/bed) on the other side of the wall would increase the sandwich's operating temperature but on the whole I'm content that this small BTT board isn't going to overheat and malfunction. Once I add an active cooling solution (80mm fan) I'll be even more content that it will be up to the job. Interestingly the Raspberry PI temperature is a better proxy/approximation for the entire sandwich than it was the first time I ran the test, but I put that down to the genuinely higher ambient temperature and lack of air movement.

[smirk]

As luck would have it my 60mm standoffs arrived today, so I could fit an 80mm cooling fan to the sandwich, and re-run the same set of tests. For the moment I have it powered from port-3 on the PICO. In the interests of scientific consistency, I cut this (cooled) set of tests short as well (not anything to do with the fact I go t distracted by making tea, oh no, it was a deliberate scientific strategy).

The 80mm fan makes a big difference to cooling, the slight increase in temperature towards the end I put down to the general rise in ambient temperature:

 

Time	Room Temp	PICO	PI
17:00	22.9	25.1	30.6
17:30	22.6	25.0	30.0
18:00	22.6	26.1	30.0
18:30	22.9	27.0	31.1
19:00	23.9	28.5	32.2

I deliberately chose the 60mm stand-offs as I wanted to make sure there was plenty of space between the bottom of the fan and the top of any cables coming out of the PI's GPIO pins. Seeing it in action and I could have got away with 55mm or even 50mm but I don't think it make make that much different to the cooling abilities of the fan

 

 

 

[smirk]

Wow, the sandwich definitely needs active cooling. The ambient (room) temperature is now 20.3C. The Sandwich is absolutely idle, has been since the last test finished just after 19:00, with PI system temperature idling around 27.3C. I turned the cooling fan off at 22:10, that's all, other than that the system is still idle and the temperate climbed (more or less instantly) to 36C:

 

 

[mvdveer]

I think once the printer is enclosed and the heated is functional, those temperatures are going to increase dramatically. Despite having an "ice cooler fan - as posted previously" on the raspi it sits at around 36C during a print. (Fully enclosed Voron 0, raspi cooling fan and a 2020 electronics bay cooling fan)

[smirk]

@mvdveer That's generally at the back of my mind, I certainly won't be putting on the back-panel (well certainly not with that damned fan poking out of the back. Certainly  my other V0 keeps cool when working,Its got 2 80mm fans but that's because I'm using full size boards.

I did come across interesting little peltier cooler, so perhaps if cooling is horrendously troublesome perhaps some more active cooling + 80mm fan might be the way forward?

It's a good impetus for me getting on with the build, especially as the heatwave seems to be passing and I can actually (semi) function.

[Immo1282]

3 hours ago, smirk said:

I did come across interesting little peltier cooler, so perhaps if cooling is horrendously troublesome perhaps some more active cooling + 80mm fan might be the way forward?

My gut feel with a Peltier is that it'll worsen the overall problem/be no more effective than proper airflow. Peltier elements move heat really effectively from one side to the other, but are really inefficient - so you'll end up with even more heat nearby the spot you're cooling.

They're great if you have an extreme hotspot in an otherwise cool area though.