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Simon2.4's Voron Saga


Simon2.4

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Awesome!! Thanks for all the detail... I was going to suggest/ask if you considered 2040 extrusions for the Z to help with stability and hopefully they would Not have a bend/twist in them like 2020 over that long distance... but it appears your Glass Sheets likely provide all the stability/strength needed to help reduce the ringing effect when printing higher.
How fast can you print high up?  I would see about slowing the pring down as you get near the top?

Edited by Marcusone1
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10 minutes ago, Marcusone1 said:

How fast can you print high up?

At this point with some tuning and learning done, It maintains good quality at 100mm/s all the way up, no noticeable difference. The glass really did it!  Even for people building 'racing printers' I'm sure it would work wonders

Yesterday, I printed a 50mm tube, like my first test but I was going at 175mm/s but I didn't try all the way up

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Glass front enclosure and doors:

- 6mm Top panel for structure in the front, doors are 5mm glass.

- Custom Hinges -> bear the weight of the glass, adjustable friction to prevent free swing and crash, clear the "Beefcake" printer handles.

Custom door handle -> moved insert position to have the hole further from the edge of the glass and added a 1mm trough for VHB tape

276578601_glassdoordesign.thumb.png.ca1ab0dc431f683c5798c5c0dde56c47.png133573165_hingedetails.thumb.png.d30718c06e5603831c15c85cecfb7dfe.png188444679_hingetop.png.cbe471fd3edbda44a827ac1820c50cba.png567416715_hingeside.png.bed93b55d3a7c2b4d6f7c32a2cf875de.png1147010869_hingeback.png.e270c61507438b115835f78090e8ebff.pnghandle.thumb.png.084664addd1ee857dd1cd4fcb0f23891.png

810884369_hingesdone.thumb.jpg.4d74e8a171690e878b931bafa2ebdc54.jpg

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Glass top and HV hat

So I've been finalizing the design of my glass enclosure and figured out how to add a circulating fan, exhaust port and heater all in one unit! In the pictures, the heater is not there as I did not receive it yet but it will install over the rectangular cutout in the glass.

How it works:

1 - circulation: There is a 120mm PC fan that picks up air from the top of the enclosure and pushes it into the housing. The air is forced back in the enclosure through the rectangular slot. This should produce rotating flow to mix the air in the enclosure.

2 - Heating: The heater above the slot will heat the air rushing back in the enclosure. It is driven by an SSR plugged in the mainboard, same as the heated bed and as described here:
https://www.teamfdm.com/files/file/455-chamber-heater/

SSR: https://www.grainger.ca/en/product/RELAY%2CSOLID-STATE/p/WWG5ZH24?

Heater: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07G2DZBYK/

3 - Exhaust: Because the 'out' port of the HV hat is restrictive with the heater in the way, the pressure in the housing will be positive in relation to the enclosure (and ambient) so air will tend try to exit through the octagonal pipe which is connected to a 75mm flex duct. To regulate the flow and balance between heating and exhaust, there is a butterfly valve that can be set manually to regulate the exhaust flow.

top.thumb.png.a09fa591bfd530c0a6627ef6165031f7.pngbottom.thumb.png.8722be6578de521a2958aca9bdf1b4e7.pngback.thumb.png.95d2e37cac1a6731fdc4dd2edda988e3.pnginside.thumb.png.8bb1788d396fe2800eed9c2897b69da9.pngproto.thumb.jpg.03437d71799ac7c1bb3f7d89dc1f716a.jpgvalve.thumb.jpg.bf4060ef20c286214d2e9fd5fd52b9cf.jpg

I'm thinking of adding a servo for the valve so it can be used in a closed-loop control scheme of some sort.

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I'm falling in love with rapid prototyping. The idea of designing complex parts like this and having it your hands the next day is incredible to say the least.

My build journey is ending soon as these are the last parts to finish this beast of a printer. The last 4 glass panels are ordered and I purchased a roll of ASA filament to make the HV hat... which brings me to an awkward position: My print quality sucks; I don't want to print ASA yet cause I just can't get it right 🙄😑  and this is with PLA

issues i'm having:

1 - vertical layers are ugly

2 - bed adhesion requires stick glue

3 - Some print warping

4 - First layer is weird, zig zag pattern on the trait?

Issues I want to work on but been avoiding:

0 - tame my expectations: not sure about this but I expect to print good parts at 100mm/s and super parts at 75mm/s.. Is this realistic? the above HV hat prototype was printed at 75mm/s and looks like garbage. 

1 - I need to switch to SuperSlicer, Cura is causing some of the issues above I'm pretty sure. I'm using Cura cause its the only one I know

2 - Octoprint... Great for many things but so limited in features and darn ugly. I need to try Mainsail I think.

3 - Mechanical tuning: loosen up the extruder, re-check belt tensions, tighten screws, sacrifice a chicken.

The good: the dimension of printed parts is good enough. My designs work...

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1 hour ago, Simon2.4 said:

I'm falling in love with rapid prototyping. The idea of designing complex parts like this and having it your hands the next day is incredible to say the least.

My build journey is ending soon as these are the last parts to finish this beast of a printer. The last 4 glass panels are ordered and I purchased a roll of ASA filament to make the HV hat... which brings me to an awkward position: My print quality sucks; I don't want to print ASA yet cause I just can't get it right 🙄😑  and this is with PLA

issues i'm having:

1 - vertical layers are ugly

2 - bed adhesion requires stick glue

3 - Some print warping

4 - First layer is weird, zig zag pattern on the trait?

Issues I want to work on but been avoiding:

0 - tame my expectations: not sure about this but I expect to print good parts at 100mm/s and super parts at 75mm/s.. Is this realistic? the above HV hat prototype was printed at 75mm/s and looks like garbage. 

1 - I need to switch to SuperSlicer, Cura is causing some of the issues above I'm pretty sure. I'm using Cura cause its the only one I know

2 - Octoprint... Great for many things but so limited in features and darn ugly. I need to try Mainsail I think.

3 - Mechanical tuning: loosen up the extruder, re-check belt tensions, tighten screws, sacrifice a chicken.

The good: the dimension of printed parts is good enough. My designs work...

For your point 0, I started with PLA too and was able to get clean PLA parts at 120mm/s. I just did a bunch of tuning with ASA (supposedly really similar to ABS) and I'm getting pretty nice prints at 100mm/s. So don't set your sights too low. I'm hoping I can spend some time in the future and try to get nice prints faster ...if possible. That being said, I'm also not sure what I should be expecting as an upper limit on speed for good prints.

Here was my skirt fan shroud at 100mm/s in ASA for an idea of quality.PXL_20220218_181956796.thumb.jpg.64b074b38cf1ee9ec3089b9e7020ecc5.jpg

Edited by ahough
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25 minutes ago, ahough said:

Here was my skirt fan shroud at 100mm/s in ASA for an idea of quality.

wow, that's superbe. That's pretty much what I'm aiming for. Thanks. did you use the Voron official guide for tuning or did you use some other source.

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9 minutes ago, Simon2.4 said:

wow, that's superbe. That's pretty much what I'm aiming for. Thanks. did you use the Voron official guide for tuning or did you use some other source.

I actually pulled from a ton of YouTube videos and various articles throughout the web to troubleshoot the problems I was running into.. I actually didn't look at the Voron docs. That probably would have been a smarter place to start. I was using the Voron Cube as my test print though. I'm not going to lie, it wasn't a fast process because the recommended printer settings on my filament were far from being even close to what I needed to get it working. Here's a few of my test prints before I moved on to tuning on real prints:1136776347_TestCubes.thumb.jpg.30b6ea8d7fe983736d56e1d37e09f1b1.jpgBenchy.thumb.jpg.260325c0965d824a14e36b651a036fde.jpg

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Got my serial number.

V2.3035

I started using SuperSlicer and it's really good. There is not much difference in function to Cura but the interface is much more useful and easy to use. I wish it had tree supports and lightening infill..

SuperSlicer has calibration utilities integrated into it that are easier to use than the official Voron tuning guide. My print quality is geting much better but still some work to do.

Benchy's and Voron Cubes come out really nice but bigger more complex parts make new problems arise.
 

 

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Glad to hear you got your serial number.   Does it just come by email?

I've seen mention of Super Slicer -  is this a must for Voron machines?

I have S3D, Cura and Prusa Slicer.   My go to was S3D until I started using Prusa Slicer. 

My builds are still in their box as I started a Prusa clone before I ordered so trying to get that one done first before moving onto the Vorons.

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Just now, 3dKaosMonkey said:

Serial number.   Does it just come by email?

It's added to your reddit post when it's issued

Just now, 3dKaosMonkey said:

Super Slicer -  is this a must for Voron machines?

No but it's really good and I got it working better than Cura in a single evening. Only thing is Cura has alot of support and articles and such; SuperSlicer is much more obscure for now.

3 minutes ago, 3dKaosMonkey said:

Prusa clone

an i3 MK3S+ ? how is it coming along? does that also use Klipper?

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Good to know...

Its a printer that is a mash of many but based upon the I3 MK3 -  (I am going to attempt to put one of the small Voron tool heads on it but we will see - wishful thinking.

I am going to try to get it set up running BTT SKR E3 V2.0 with Klipper  - not to run it fast or anything just to learn a bit before I try the voron builds. 

This was a project a started sometime ago and rather than throwing it away I figured I would build it out but in the same breath I bought the V0.1 and V2.4 Vorons.

End game is to get rid of my CR-10 Mini and this machine and just keep the two Vorons.

20220221_153817.jpg

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4 minutes ago, 3dKaosMonkey said:

What draws you to the Galileo/Orbiter extruder?   

planetary gearbox gives it great mechanical advantage in a very small space so it can use a tiny stepper that revs higher but still have good pulling/pushing force. it is more complicated in theory but the application is elegant I think.

Just the right level of quirkiness  lol

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2nd prototype with main components installed. @ahough did you leave the included thermostat plugged if it had one ?

I added the servo at this point with a clear idea on what it needs to do  but completely clueless as to how to implement. Anyone that can help coding the function would be greatly appreciated.

2 things the servo should do:

1 - manage pollutants by keeping a minimum flow to the exhaust port using a closed-loop control based on reading a differential pressure sensor like this one: https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/sensirion-ag/SDP816-125PA/6605490

2 - open up the exhaust if chamber temperature exceeds set chamber temperature.

hvhat 2nd proto.jpg

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4 hours ago, Simon2.4 said:

2nd prototype with main components installed. @ahough did you leave the included thermostat plugged if it had one ?

My PTC heater didn't come with a thermostat. I ended up adding a thermistor to the heater core and making sure it had a good connection via thermal grease to get good temperature readings. I also added a thermal fuse and bonded it to the heater core with thermal grease for safety. Hardware failure or bad code could get you into the danger zone if you don't add a thermal fuse, and I wasn't ready to see my printer catch on fire.

As far as using Klipper to make component operate based on two sensors was something I was struggling with on my setup. From what I've come to understand, you may have to execute an external script to make something like that happen. In my case I have two temperature readings I was wanting to work with, the heater core itself and the enclosure temperature. I wanted to turn on the heater if the enclosure was below X degrees, and turn off the heater if the core itself was above Y degrees or the enclosure was above Z degrees. I wasn't able to find a way to do this, so I ended up having to just figure out what my max enclosure temperatures were with the heater core always running at a given temperature max.

I'd love to know if someone has been able to figure out how to operate a single component based on multiple sensors. It'd give me a much easier time with my setup too.

Edited by ahough
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Exhaust management:

I've been brainstorming on how to approach the the management of the servo/exhaust valve. For fume extraction, the printer's electronics don't need to be involved at all: If I use a 10$ arduino nano to read the pressure diff sensor and manage the servo opening, this process could just happen by its self, whatever I'm doing with the printer. I would just add a potentiometer to manually set the desired pressure diff and let it do its thing.

As for exhausting air for cooling the chamber, I can hardly imagine a use case for that... When is the chamber ever too hot ?? Perhaps when printing PLA in the desert sun... So why bother with that function at all...

The fan is always on when the printer is powered so that's easy enough

and the heater is just used as a normal chamber heater

It all falls together so nicely. add a 10$ computer and call it a day!  😉

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Scariest step:

Because of my glass enclosure, There are no holes in the walls so no place for the filament to enter the printer. I did not want to load from the top because it's too tall and hard to see up there. My original intention was to carefully run the PTFE tube following the cable chains and poke through the electronics bay and load the machine from the base. This does not work : it makes a 3meter tube with 5 bends and it was too restrictive. So this is what I came up with; it lets the tube run in and out through the opening so when the gantry is high up its not tangled up.

I had to drill an offset 10mm hole through an extrusion at 1mm from the glass pane... The tube is 10mm HDPE pneumatic line.
1356165998_bowdenguide2.thumb.jpg.a3531b51758395fb58067986e92f2a6c.jpg1189476844_bowdenguide1.thumb.jpg.cd0b518480f2eeee4b817aff455fba87.jpg1754465191_drillguide.thumb.jpg.c9d38ad6e1841c726e278a9ffb0df07f.jpg

 

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Heated Chamber Testing 1

I was able to wire up and configure my heated chamber thanks to @ahough for setting me on the right track; Oddly, Klipper seems to have no 'Official support' for heated chambers: that is, sending M141 : Set Chamber Temperature, as per RepRap Gcode, does not work. It needs to be setup as a custom macro. Here is my config as of today:

 


#####################################################################
#   Chamber heater
#####################################################################

[heater_generic CHAMBER_HEATER]
gcode_id: C   ##   The id to use when reporting the temperature in the M105 command. Octoprint needs this to recognise Chamber temperature.

heater_pin: PB10  ## see your board's pinout diagram to figure this one
max_power: 0.60  ## adjust this to compensate thermost's hysterisis to have the heater keep highest fin temperature without turning off.
sensor_type: Generic 3950  ## creality stock bed thermistor
sensor_pin: PF7  ##  see your board's pinout diagram to figure this one
smooth_time:1.0 ## smooth out temperature reading noise
control: watermark   ##   Control algorithm either pid or watermark (bangbang) NOTE: PID auto-tune can be done with chamber heater too
#pid_Kp: 25  ## uncomment for PID
#pid_Ki: 1   ##  uncomment for PID
#pid_Kd: 300   ##  uncomment for PID

max_delta: 0.3  ##  On 'watermark' hysterisis in degrees c, both ways...


pwm_cycle_time: 0.1  ## set to 0.01666 to match 60 Hz power grid and avoid flickering lights ; set to 0.1 to see what's going on  ;)

min_temp: 0  ## range for heater set point
max_temp: 110  ## range for heater set point

[verify_heater CHAMBER_HEATER]  ## mandatory section for sefety
max_error: 120  ## ?
check_gain_time: 30  ## max time in seconds you expect temperature to raise by "heating gain" below
hysteresis: 5  ## in degrees c, how close to heater set point does the "verify heater" procedure is considered successful and ends. 
heating_gain: 1  ## how many degrees c should raise in given "check gain time"

[gcode_macro M141] ##This custom macro sets up the M141 gcode to set Chamber Heater ON by normal RepRap instructions like'M141 S60'   
gcode:
    SET_HEATER_TEMPERATURE HEATER=CHAMBER_HEATER TARGET={ params.S }

#####################################################################

To test the heater, i blocked the openings to imitate the ports on the finished top:
363185082_heatertest2.thumb.jpg.f1a78fd73061c141c92e7afcb139f79e.jpg1182567024_heatertest1.thumb.jpg.07650721afe2e9764dbd9cd0cafe87d8.jpg

Sadly, as it is, the heater is not capable if raising the temperature above 42c in a 20c room so delta 22c. That's far from the 60-70 required for ASA.

1977561023_heatertestgraph.png.12f708aad7c95a7b2da7445779f2b04d.png

One of the reasons this is happening is because there is not enough airflow through the heater to dissipate all it's potential power of 250W. the blades heat up too fast and the thermostat turns it off. When set at 100% in the firmware, it gives a duty cycle of about 50% with the high point at 180c and low point at 130c. Lowering the power to 60 extends the duty cycle to close to 100% but does not give out enough energy.. sad. The fan I'm using for testing is Lian-Li silent fan that's better for flow.

So I need to put a fan that will create pressure around the heater. I ordered a Noctua NF-P12 redux-1700 :https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07CG2PGY6/ which has the highest pressure rating of all their PC fans.

I'm a sucker for Noctua, don't care much for the brown but damn are they good quality. Already own 11 of them all in use and the first one I got being 10 years old.

This should help get more heat out of my current design but I'm not convinced it will be enough. The printer will end up installed in a room that could go down to 10c so I will probably need a much more powerful heater or maybe just add a second one like I have already.

Insulation is an obvious thing to consider but 'She' would loos her sex appeal in a winter coat 😉

 

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