Simon2.4's Voron Saga

[Simon2.4]

2nd test print. Still no tuning done, just checking to make sure it can actually print its full height.

This took 2h 30m at 70mm/s to reach 700mm.

 

[3dKaosMonkey]

Nice... first thing that came to my mind - was you can print yourself some model rockets with that height.

[Simon2.4]

Just now, 3dKaosMonkey said:

Nice... first thing that came to my mind - was you can print yourself some model rockets with that height.

yah for sure, I haven't played with those in a very long time. That's how I started in hobbies. Estes rockets. fell in love with balsa and started building planes

[3dKaosMonkey]

1 minute ago, Simon2.4 said:

yah for sure, I haven't played with those in a very long time. That's how I started in hobbies. Estes rockets. fell in love with balsa and started building planes

Ditto - I too - rockets and then onto a Goldberg gentle lady glider, Eagle trainer and many more planes after that over the past 30 years. 

[Simon2.4]

7 minutes ago, 3dKaosMonkey said:

Ditto - I too - rockets and then onto a Goldberg gentle lady glider, Eagle trainer and many more planes after that over the past 30 years. 

Holy crap, Goldberg gentle lady glider was the first kit I built too!  lol  are you American or Canadian ?

[3dKaosMonkey]

American - 

[Killajoedotcom]

Your build came out awesome! Congrats! Thanks for posting all the videos, etc.

[claudermilk]

Nice. That looks like a C270 webcam? I'm looking at that for myself.

Also, what's the purpose of your heat shield?

Edited February 1, 2022 by claudermilk

[Demosth]

THIS IS AWESOME!!!!

I love the TallBoi and greatly appreciate you keeping the build diary and keeping updated. It is amazing seeing that tall of a print. Well done!

Do you plan on getting a Voron Serial for it?

[Simon2.4]

- Heatshield: I read somewhere on a forum about some guy who was messing around with high temperature and ended up melting the acrylic from radiant heat from the bed. I'm the kind of guy that will preheat my printer bed but just use it 4 hours after; so this seemed like an easy precaution to add.

-C270 webcam indeed. This one was ordered from Taiwan for about 30$ the image quality is really good for the price.

-Voron Serial:  definitely! When I'm completely done wit the project.

When I finished my 'voron session' yesterday, It didn't end well: I tried a 3rd print for small parts I need and the inductive sensor was giving out of tolerance readings and failed QGL 5 times in a row. Tolerance by default is set at 0.0075 and I had to raise that all the way to 0.017 to get a successful leveling; than after about 30 minutes of normal operation, the extruder jammed up; started creaking and I noticed it was splitting apart between the extruder and hotend at every thrust... not good

@Demosth It that tolerance rating in mm ? cause 0.0075mm is very very small, compared to the rest of a machine like this at least.

I may replace the probe with a genuine one: https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/GX-H15BI/1110-1197-ND/3896896 As I do like the idea very much compared to Clicky probe mod or bltouch

 

Next:
Enclosure
Tuning
heating system
**Simon's structural mystery mod**    ; )

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Simon2.4

[Simon2.4]

Is this normal? I think this is what may have caused my failure yesterday. any insight on this?

[Demosth]

@Simon2.4 I have always assumed that this is mm - but honestly cannot find anything in the Klipper docs indicating it is indeed in mm. 0.0075 is indeed very small, but it is also the default value. 

UPDATE: Confrimed with the Klipper devs that this is indeed measured in MM

I have read many people have issues with the inductive probes as the heat can affect readings, this is the basis for mods like the Klicky Probe. If it were not for the complexity, i think Klicky should be a default install as the measurement is more accurate from the ACTUAL build surface, not the electornically sensed closest metal surface.

https://www.teamfdm.com/files/file/191-klicky-probe/ 

Looking at the Klipper config section, some areas of the QGL indicate the unit of measurement, but the "retry_tolerance" does not specify....

Spoiler

 

[quad_gantry_level]
#gantry_corners:
#   A newline separated list of X, Y coordinates describing the two
#   opposing corners of the gantry. The first entry corresponds to Z,
#   the second to Z2. This parameter must be provided.
#points:
#   A newline separated list of four X, Y points that should be probed
#   during a QUAD_GANTRY_LEVEL command. Order of the locations is
#   important, and should correspond to Z, Z1, Z2, and Z3 location in
#   order. This parameter must be provided. For maximum accuracy,
#   ensure your probe offsets are configured.
#speed: 50
#   The speed (in mm/s) of non-probing moves during the calibration.
#   The default is 50.
#horizontal_move_z: 5
#   The height (in mm) that the head should be commanded to move to
#   just prior to starting a probe operation. The default is 5.
#max_adjust: 4
#   Safety limit if an adjustment greater than this value is requested
#   quad_gantry_level will abort.
#retries: 0
#   Number of times to retry if the probed points aren't within
#   tolerance.
#retry_tolerance: 0
#   If retries are enabled then retry if largest and smallest probed
#   points differ more than retry_tolerance.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Demosth
Confirmation on measurement unit update.

[Simon2.4]

Bandaid fix for the splitting head: a few wraps of aramid (Kevlar) thread; that will not stretch! It seems to have done the trick. The extruder is nice and quiet now.

Added a stack of mica sheets between the hotend and the probe; hopefully help with slowing heat transfer. Mica is permeable to EM waves and fireproof.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0863WS5ZV

[Demosth]

Great find on the rocking print head assembly! Thank you for sharing. what exactly appears to have caused this? Is a part failing?

On another note - I was able to determine that the tolerance is indeed measure in mm. .0075mm it is! (I modified my previous comment to confirm as well)

[Simon2.4]

3 hours ago, Demosth said:

Great find on the rocking print head assembly! Thank you for sharing. what exactly appears to have caused this? Is a part failing?

On another note - I was able to determine that the tolerance is indeed measure in mm. .0075mm it is! (I modified my previous comment to confirm as well)

The head doesn't rock, that would indicate a problem with the rails; rather it's the joint between the extruder and the hotend assemblies. Since the assemblies are held together on the afterburner head but not actually between each other, the force applied to the filament produces a cantilevered reaction force on the head, which bends it IF the filament encounters an obstruction in the hotend. Which brings me to the next point: The filament path feels rough when I insert the filament. It's probably rubbing around the junction of the ptfe tube and the entrance of the hotend. When the extruder does many retracts for a detailed part it works the abs of the head that is softened by the heat and end up jamming, causing the failure. My kevlar thread has fixed the problem but it seems like carbon fiber filament would be better for the head I think.

I am eventually going to build a gantry better suited for my machine including Galileo extruder and carbon fiber 'X tube' to make it super light.

I've been having bed adhesion issues too, I miss the creality glass bed for that. I got it fixed now with some ScotchBrite scuffing but adhesion is not super strong. With the creality, it was literally impossible to unstick the part untill the bed got cold. With this yellow bed, it take just a light bump on the hot bed.

Tuning is going well, though I find the initialization routine quite slow it takes 4 to 5 minutes to restart a print 

-How do I change change things like having the preheat routine do the bed and hotend together, not in sequence when I start a print?

Benchy @ 75mm/s speed and 4000 mm/s2 acceleration  +-42 minutes:

It's getting there...

Edited February 2, 2022 by Simon2.4

[Simon2.4]

75mm/s slowed to 55mm/s for the last 20% with the steep overhangs

https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-woman-body-optimised-for-vase-mode-84682

Edited February 2, 2022 by Simon2.4

[Simon2.4]

I need help with this. As soon as I try a part that's more complex, the extruder can't handle the retractions. It systematical jams up and fails. For now I'm not impressed at all with this design.. It's been problematic since the start.

Anyone have tips on fixing this? for now I'm limited to printing in vase mode..  sigh. I'm looking forward to printing actual parts but the extruder is way too unreliable.  Help PLZ

 

[Simon2.4]

From: https://docs.vorondesign.com/community/howto/simonthecat/I_wish_I_had_known.html

I'm going to take the head apart and "Hone the AferBurner filament path with a very sharp drill bit"

and check the gear meshing.

[Simon2.4]

OMG I found the underlying issue. A simple setting in Cura that pretty much broke my print head...

Here's the issue: if you retract the filament beyond the fusion chamber of the hotend, the filament binds and seizes in the cold part. When the extruder tries to push it back down, the blockage gets worsened by the wedging angles ; essentially, it all binds up. Klipper has this nifty thing called pressure advance that supplements part of the retraction, usually handled by the slicer... In Cura, the default max retraction for the Voron preset is 6.5mm !?! along wit pressure advance, this pulled the filament out every time and even pulled in air by the tip causing bubbles in the plastic. I set this to 1mm and it's all fixed now.

THANKS to this article: https://github.com/Klipper3d/klipper/issues/3448 Who's title alone pointed me to my solution.

My head is permanently bent out of shape but it works perfectly with the bracing.

 

6.5mm is normal for a bowden setup...  I see

Edited February 3, 2022 by Simon2.4

[Killajoedotcom]

That will definitely do it. Can never fully trust built in slicer profiles. It why I moved retraction duties over to my printer.cfg. Now, no matter which slicer I use, my retraction will always be correct. That is as long as I set up the slicer for firmware retraction.

[Demosth]

12 hours ago, Simon2.4 said:

THANKS to this article: https://github.com/Klipper3d/klipper/issues/3448 Who's title alone pointed me to my solution.

THANK YOU for sharing this - so glad there was a specific cause AND a specific fix. I think this will be a huge help to others as well!

[Simon2.4]

Now it works really well. I can print the parts I need to finish it.. First real part printed:

510Grams  16:30 Hours  Very good quality

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Simon2.4

[Simon2.4]

So this is what it looks like when a stepper skips a beat on a coreXY... diagonal layer shift...

Actually, I think this is where the bed's thermal expansion released from the fasteners...

Edited February 4, 2022 by Simon2.4

[Demosth]

On 2/3/2022 at 10:39 PM, Simon2.4 said:

Actually, I think this is where the bed's thermal expansion released from the fasteners...

Argh - how long did you let it "preheat" before you started printing? is there any idea on how this could be prevented?

[Simon2.4]

46 minutes ago, Demosth said:

Argh - how long did you let it "preheat" before you started printing? is there any idea on how this could be prevented?

 

It was my mistake: when I installed the bed on the printer, it was face-down on the table and I tightened all 4 screws to hold the bed firm during the assembly; I had the intention of releasing 3 of these to let the bed move as recommended but I forgot.

I don't think one need to preheat for a long time as material expansion is in direct (instantaneous) relation with it's temperature, that is, it will expand right away as it is heated. The reason I had a delayed reaction (a few 10's of hours of printing) is probably because vibration from normal use is slowly relaxing the fasteners.

I just left the rear right screw torqued and loosened the three others to 'touching'

As a startup routine, I'll do the following from now on:

1 - preheat to 20degrees above your desired temperature, then set the right temp and let it cool to the set point.

2 - give the side of the bed a good firm bump with a screwdriver handle to provoke movement in the plate. This should settle the plate nice and stable every time.