VzBot 330

[Penatr8tor]

@TitusADuxass

Did you try printing any of those RSCS parts yet?

Just curious if they worked out for you.

[TitusADuxass]

31 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

@TitusADuxass

Did you try printing any of those RSCS parts yet?

Just curious if they worked out for you.

They're on tomorrow's to-do list.

I've looked at them, I can see what you've done - I think they'll work for me.

[PFarm]

Congrats @TitusADuxass looking forward to following your build.

[mvdveer]

Oh yeah - build time - Gongratulation @TitusADuxass

[TitusADuxass]

I'm starting to check off the items, with assistance from Lulu.

[TitusADuxass]

So it took a good couple of hours, but everything has been delivered and apart from some items being in different boxes.

Being a cynical barsteward it takes a lot to impress me, but this kit has impressed.

From the quaity of the packing to the quality of the compnents. 

Look at the build plate, it's like a mirror! I first thought it was cold pressed with a protective sheet of something on it, but after further inspections you can just see machining marks on the surface. They must used a very fine surfacing cutter.

The gantry has the CF tube, all motors and rails are LDO items. 

Crimping on the supplied wiring is beyond question. 

When I compare this to the v0.1 kit that I got from fystec - you get what you pay for.

I might start the build this weekend, but the weather is supposed to be nice - so I'll most probably be camping and fishing.

 

 

[Penatr8tor]

Wow... That build plate is crazy shiny.

Sad that you're going to stick a magnet sheet onto it.

@TitusADuxass Did you order the CNC X-Beam or are you going to use the CF one that came with the kit?

[TitusADuxass]

@mvdveer @Penatr8tor

Gents,

I need your advice again.

This is, for me, the first project where I'll have to dip my toes into the murky waters of Pi World.

The Git hub BOM tells me that I need to buy a  Raspberry Pi4 / zero w2. What it doen't say is however much memory.

A Pi Zero appears to only have a measly 512mb, that does not sound enough to me.

Pi 4s come with 2/4/8gb - price from 51-90 yoyos. I have no price limits. So if the 8gb gives me more future security, I'll splash out the extra 50 yoyos.

Which one do I need?

Incidentally - a Pi 5 is now at the about the same price as a Pi 4. I suppose it would make sense to buy a Pi 5. 

 

[TitusADuxass]

1 minute ago, Penatr8tor said:

Wow... That build plate is crazy shiny.

Sad that you're going to stick a magnet sheet onto it.

@TitusADuxass Did you order the CNC X-Beam or are you going to use the CF one that came with the kit?

I'm going to use the CF one, until it gives me issues.

[Penatr8tor]

I have a Pi 4B 8gig in my VzBoT. The benefit of the 8gb is that you can run the 64bit OS. Pi 5 will probably work but that would be swimming into untested waters.

Not saying a Pi 5 won't work, just saying I haven't tried one yet. I do have one to test though.

[Penatr8tor]

3 minutes ago, TitusADuxass said:

I'm going to use the CF one, until it gives me issues.

I don't think it will. It's just a choice thing IMO.

[Penatr8tor]

@TitusADuxass One thing on the Pi 5... With a PCI header you can run an M.2 NVME SSD instead of the micro SD and with faster WIFI on the 5 you've got some real power compared to the Pi 4. Think almost instant load times and 30fps video.

[claudermilk]

Is Pi 5 even supported yet? I don't know. Even my 2GB Pi 4in my Trident  is overkill--it's sitting idle & at 17% RAM usage. The V0 with a 1GB Pi 3 is sitting at 19% usage. The preferred Pi for a V0 is a Zero 2W (that over the Zero 2 to allow USB webcams and input shaping). These printers don't really stress a Pi at all. So I'd say get whatever's cheapest and available.

[Penatr8tor]

3 minutes ago, claudermilk said:

Is Pi 5 even supported yet? I don't know.

That's what I was thinking. I was just doing some searching around for anything on the Pi 5 running Klipper and haven't really found anything.

This would be a good topic for a dedicated thread.

Edited April 24 by Penatr8tor
Forgot something...

[Dirk]

1 hour ago, TitusADuxass said:

I need to buy

2000 euros and no Rpi included? I am disappointed.

I have purchased all my RPi's (4x) from Ali. From this shop. The sales rep is very friendly and accommodating. She even sent me a Pi when they were sold out in the time of shortage. I bought them all around discount times and got for very sharp prices.

I am considering to buy this Rpi 5. Waiting for the next sale action  It is never bad to have a few spare Rpi's in the drawer.

But I can imagine you would prefer Amazon. So you can return when it doesnt work. I have seen prices double that of Ali for the same hardware.

 

46 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

Pi 5 running Klipper

I know that @mvdveer uses them already since before it was available to EU. So I thought the RPi was being made in Australia. But it is all Chinese

So we need to wait for his expert advise about running klipper on it.

But when I mentioned I wanted to buy one, many people could tell me I should not forget the NVM thingy... No idea what it is, but will read about it when I am about to pay

 

It is overkill? Yes. It is.

Klipper runs perfectly well on the second generation Raspberry zero. But, if you want to add 2 cameras and a cartographer and do resonance testing, it seems to be too much.

Because you got this VZBot, I would think you will require speedy calculations, so go with the latest RPi with 4Gb. Because it is much cheaper than the 8Gb one. 

On my v2.4 I run a RPi 4 8Gb, and have never seen the CPU use the max capacity.

 

RPi-4 or RPi-5? I think there will be no difference in performance. But like with all kinds of hardware, the newer versions will have more features (for example like the NVM) which means you can use them longer over time.

 

 

[Penatr8tor]

I just ordered a Waveshare NVME hat for my Pi 5 4gb and a 256gb Samsung 2242 NVME SSD.

I've been wanting to test out the Pi and now that I have "The Rig"... I have something to test it on that's not a printer.

Parts should be in Friday so, we will see. If it really kicks ass, I'll upgrade my VzBoT to the Pi 5.

[Dirk]

33 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

If it really kicks ass

That's an interesting setup indeed. Will be curious to see the results.

Not an expert, but as I understand it, the different components in the 'bus' influence the final speed improvement you get, so you must get some gains.

BTT has 3 different chipsets on their Octopus Pro, and in one or two of them they say it is for the CNC systems that need more performance. As I understand it, the RPi does the calculating, but processing commands / sensing / integrating at the end is performed by the chip of the main CPU. Maybe forwarded to the RPi CPU.

Having a CAN / USB network or a Toolhead with a separate CPU will also influence the communication and speed.

I wonder though if it will matter very much.

But as I said, interesting to see the results

 

[Penatr8tor]

@Dirk My guess on the improvement that you'll see will mostly be, load time... Pi 5 has WIFI 6 so faster upload of g-code and video performance... 30fps versus 5fps and higher resolution. The other benefit would be using an SSD instead of a MicroSD. Not only is the SSD faster, it's also more reliable and has a longer lifespan than an SD card. Bear in mind that I'm not as financially constrained by the price of something as a lot of 3D printer enthusiasts may be so, I'm not affected by the whole it's not worth it thing. If I'm having fun... it's worth it to me. 

[TitusADuxass]

41 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

@Dirk Bear in mind that I'm not as financially constrained by the price of something as a lot of 3D printer enthusiasts may be so, I'm not affected by the whole it's not worth it thing. If I'm having fun... it's worth it to me. 

I with you there mate, I like learning by taking a chance on things.

[Dirk]

4 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

financially constrained

I doubt any of the regulars here are financially constrained. I do not really see a profitable cause for 3D printing, except for the few people that run an online business, but they will not spend their costly time by sharing their opinions here. The men (and a few women) you see here, hang around here to enjoy their time. When you look around and read between the lines, most of them are ( old) men, without time-consuming-kids (anymore) at home, spending time using their intellect and creative talents to build printers and print things. And do not mind to give advise to the next generation(s).
I do not see university students hanging around here to help each other build their printers
So the average advise you get here when it comes to new hardware, is on the better quality, expensive parts. The adagium of difference between boys and men, surely applies here.
Which as you say, does not apply to everyone. That is why when I write about such products, I like to name alternatives to the more expensive components.
And maybe I choose too often for the too cheap ones, because I prefer to do a bit more work to get to the same result. I remember for example @Buurman mentioning in one of his popular threads that he buys ready made cables because his soldering is not as good as the ones he buys. I see it as a challenge to buy loose cables and fiddle around with them until I get it right. This also gives me a new skill in soldering, even I need glasses these days to get things done.

In the case of Beacon / Cartographer, I truly can not see a single reason (not functionally, not qualitatively, not performance-wise) why I should pay 3 times the money to get one that is better popularized, even though it misses a beloved option (CAN-connectivity).

Or in the case of the RPi I have named above, get it from Amazon, for 2- 3 times the price. The people selling the RPi on Amazon, are the same people selling it on AliExpress: the Chinese companies. The only difference is Amazon delivers within 3 days and AliExpress in 10 days. Not worth, even if it is fun, 2-3 times the price.

I think we are all here because we enjoy one or the other about printing. And I have also noticed people see we talk and follow our advise. And I agree with you that it is good to inform them about the alternatives, and the why we like things better. Which you are a king in, by the way

 

[Penatr8tor]

@Dirk A lot of times, I pay a little extra for peace of mind but really... who am I kidding. I've had plenty of stuff I thought was high quality that I paid extra for go bad on me. 

[mvdveer]

15 hours ago, TitusADuxass said:

Pi 4s come with 2/4/8gb

As @Penatr8tor, I run a Raspi pi4B 8GB on the VZBOT.

Though I have some Raspi pi 5's, they have not been utilised in the klipper environment. I do not see the need for this much power. A 4GB Pi4 will be plenty

[mvdveer]

6 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

If I'm having fun... it's worth it to me

 

5 hours ago, TitusADuxass said:

I with you there mate, I like learning by taking a chance on things.

Ditto that!

[DelphiXE]

On 4/22/2024 at 12:59 PM, TitusADuxass said:

@Dirk I've been on one of those ICU patients...4 days with tube and drains in every orifice (plus some extra holes they made for access).

Back on topic - I've done a bit of research. In Orca preview I can identify the starting point (layer) where I want the print to slow down, then right click and add a custom gcode M220 S10 (for 10% of the original speed). The M220 applies to all motors (X, Y, Zs & E).

If its enough, you can just set the minimal layer time in the material higher (cooling -> max Fan speed -> Layer time)

If your print is generally to slow after the change, you can split the part (part splitting tool, make shure you checked the "create components" box) and apply 2 different materials. Create a copy of yur current meterial and just set the layer time for that upper blade. Then apply the material to the blade.

[zav3nd]

Pi wise (and only on printers) I've used Pi4's, Ender got a 2gb, Voron Trident got a 4gb. Granted the Ender 2gb mostly ran on Octoprint/Marlin and hasn't done much on klipper. The 4gb seems more than enough that I couldn't justify going to 8gb unless the price was "close enough" - maybe $10-15 difference.

 

Just looked it up, it is, I'd be in the same boat of 'does it make a difference?' then just order the 8gb even though the 2gb is probably more than enough.