why is the community as a whole so againt the elmer's glue or another method ?

[7milesup]

On 4/12/2024 at 9:56 AM, Simon2.4 said:

Or just trying to print PLA on a PEI bed...

I print PLA on a PEI bed with nothing on it.  A quick wash with soap and water, and I am back in business.

I find that PEI sheets vary widely in how well they work.  I recently bought a no-name one-sided PEI sheet from Amazon thinking that I was going to use it solely to glue an FR4 sheet to it.  It turns out that particular PEI sheet is awesome for PLA.  Who woulda thunk...

[therm_virtual0y]

On 4/11/2024 at 1:54 PM, GarthSnyder said:

I think glue is largely considered passé because of the advent of PEI. You mention glass plates a couple of times, which makes me wonder if you’ve given PEI a proper try. It’s not great for PETG, though.

Either way, it’s perfectly fine to use glue. It does no harm, just creates a bit of mess. Very useful for PETG since it interposes a glue layer between the print and the bed it would otherwise bond to permanently.

I use glue on my PEI to keep the PETG from sticking too much 

[PorcoMaster]

On 4/12/2024 at 3:54 AM, TitusADuxass said:

If you want to use glue but also want a smooth finish try using PVA wood glue diluted 25/75 (ish) water and apply it with a foam brush.  It gives god adhesion with the thicker snot from glue sticks.

This is my glue jar.

 

On 4/12/2024 at 6:30 AM, Simon2.4 said:

I tried a few things and what I like now is white pva glue diluted in 99% ipa. dries fast and super thin.

 

so... just to engrave it on internet, so the next person might have more information that I had

I tried the PVA glue + IPA 99%( Isopropyl Alcohol), and PVA + Water

I made all tests using a Creality glass bed, on the glass side.

I used the gorilla wood glue, as in their website they say it’s PVA glue, the other glues do not say which type of wood glue it’s so I decided for gorilla, I also have the IPA 99%

the PVA + IPA didn’t work, at first I used 25%-75% alcohol and it became a blob I will post the video on here so you guys can see, I then added more IPA to dissolve better but even shaking a lot, when I passed on the bed I didn’t like the result

then I cleaned the jar, and made the PVA + Water, 25%/75%, and it worked amazing, too amazing thou, the printed nylon got stuck in the bed and I had to use a torch and scrap the remaining off. Elmer glue was just perfect and I didn’t have this problem with nylon.

however I really liked the idea of glue, so I added a lot of glue to the water, I am not sure which proportion it’s right now, but I would not be surprised if it’s about 50%/50%. I also put way more on the bed, than the other time that I tried to do just a thin layer, I put the bed at 100 ºC, so the water evaporates really fast, so IPA on this case was not necessary either way.

I am not sure if it was the difference of the layer of glue I put, or the proportion of glue to water, but the last test was successful, not as easy to take out as Elmers’s glue, but it was fairly easy, and it still kept the printed part to stay in there.

so yeah, PVA glue + water is a great combination.

Edited April 25 by PorcoMaster

[TitusADuxass]

PVA is water based, so it's never going to be a good mix with IPA.

I guesstimate mine to be 10-12% glue 88-90ish water - YMMV.

[PorcoMaster]

2 hours ago, TitusADuxass said:

PVA is water based, so it's never going to be a good mix with IPA.

I guesstimate mine to be 10-12% glue 88-90ish water - YMMV.

i mean, i had to try it haha, i don't think the poster mixed both on jar, i think he does as most people do, and i did, but i did with the glue stick, it's that to pass the glue and then pass a little IPA in the top of it and mix in the bed instead.

but i really liked your formula, and i am loving it. thank you very much for the advice, my elmers glue was gone after just a few days printing, as i am always printing a lot, and i like to wash the bed time to time. and instead of buying the elmers glue again i preferred to try your formula, and i really liked it,

but i must ask with 10-12% glue it seeings really low, i am using almost 50% now and i think it's too dissolved and, it looks like water with glue. i am using a foam brush. even that when i heat up the bed, the bed is not stick like the elmer's, still getting the prints to stick so i am not complaining, but 10% looks like a lot low.

[Simon2.4]

Sorry I forgot to mention, I don't pre mix it, I put glue on the bed and wipe it with an IPA rag to spread it. I would imagine that it will dilute in 70% IPA but not in 99%

[Simon2.4]

This is what it looks like

[Hun73rdk]

why not just use Dimafix or same kind ??? i do that no need to go chemist and use all kinds of weird stuff

[Simon2.4]

55 minutes ago, Hun73rdk said:

why not just use Dimafix or same kind ??? i do that no need to go chemist and use all kinds of weird stuff

For me it's about cost. It adds up.

[PorcoMaster]

4 hours ago, Simon2.4 said:

Sorry I forgot to mention, I don't pre mix it, I put glue on the bed and wipe it with an IPA rag to spread it. I would imagine that it will dilute in 70% IPA but not in 99%

you don't need to be sorry, i had ipa 99% it didn't cost me anything and it was a good learning experience either way.

i really appreciate your commentary thou as my suspicion was right haha, i did that with elmer glue stick, so it makes sense either way haha.

[7milesup]

4 hours ago, Hun73rdk said:

why not just use Dimafix or same kind ??? i do that no need to go chemist and use all kinds of weird stuff

That is really expensive. The SDS sheet shows that it consists of acetone and PVA. Sure, BASF makes awesome stuff, but they also charge a lot.

10 hours ago, PorcoMaster said:

I used the gorilla wood glue, as in their website they say it’s PVA glue, the other glues do not say which type of wood glue it’s so I decided for gorilla, I also have the IPA 99%

You mentioned the Gorilla wood glue, which is good. Gorilla Glue is well known for its polyurethane glue, which you do not want to use. 

I use Titebond III extensively.  I have been woodworking for 35+ years, and the Titebond brand has always been my go-to.

 

 

 

 

[Hun73rdk]

6 hours ago, Simon2.4 said:

For me it's about cost. It adds up.

I use like 1 can a year you don't need much to make it stick what is a can about 10$ to 15$

[TitusADuxass]

13 hours ago, PorcoMaster said:

i mean, i had to try it haha, i don't think the poster mixed both on jar, i think he does as most people do, and i did, but i did with the glue stick, it's that to pass the glue and then pass a little IPA in the top of it and mix in the bed instead.

but i really liked your formula, and i am loving it. thank you very much for the advice, my elmers glue was gone after just a few days printing, as i am always printing a lot, and i like to wash the bed time to time. and instead of buying the elmers glue again i preferred to try your formula, and i really liked it,

but i must ask with 10-12% glue it seeings really low, i am using almost 50% now and i think it's too dissolved and, it looks like water with glue. i am using a foam brush. even that when i heat up the bed, the bed is not stick like the elmer's, still getting the prints to stick so i am not complaining, but 10% looks like a lot low.

I did say that it was a guesstimate. I really can't be anymore precise. My glue jar is a bit like sour dough starter bottle - it's a living thing that I feed with glue from time to time.

I cannot lay claim to this technique, I got the tip from someone (WhiskyBlackSmith) on discord.

Edited April 26 by TitusADuxass

[PorcoMaster]

15 hours ago, 7milesup said:

That is really expensive. The SDS sheet shows that it consists of acetone and PVA. Sure, BASF makes awesome stuff, but they also charge a lot.

You mentioned the Gorilla wood glue, which is good. Gorilla Glue is well known for its polyurethane glue, which you do not want to use. 

I use Titebond III extensively.  I have been woodworking for 35+ years, and the Titebond brand has always been my go-to.

When I was buying I saw titebond classic and titebond II I think it was cheaper and I really thought on buying it, but there is no formula on the package and there was no formula or mentions on their websites, the only one that explicity mentioned PVA was gorilla wood glue on their website, not even on their package either, so I decided to go with gorilla glue, if it was not for this small detail I would have chosen titebond as the package was smaller and cheaper.

 

12 hours ago, TitusADuxass said:

I did say that it was a guesstimate. I really can't be anymore precise. My glue jar is a bit like sour dough starter bottle - it's a living thing that I feed with glue from time to time.

I cannot lay claim to this technique, I got the tip from someone (WhiskyBlackSmith) on discord.

Yeah, that is what I have being doing on my own jar, since the beggining I have being adding glue, like you said a sour dough hahahah, I should have restarted from the beginning and added water until I was satisfied, it would be faster to find a good compromise, but yeah I understand your feeling all too well, I think that a 75 glue and 25 water with a good shake would be a perfect combination, but at same time I don't want to lose all the glue I already invested, sunk cust fallacy as it's best haha.

Edited April 26 by PorcoMaster

[chrisalbertson]

Glue works fine.  I still use it on my old Prusa i3 clone.   But today we have magnetic plates that don't need glue.   I like the plate.  Rather than trying to remove the part from thje bed, I simply remove the entire bed, set it aside and put in another magnetic bed and start printing.   Later the bed cools and the part pops off on its own.

I guess you could do the same if you ownd several sheets of glass.

One thing I dislike about glue is the surface is never smooth.  OK, I need to buy an ink roller and lay down a mirror-smooth glue layer.   But why bother?  I can buy a smooth PEI plate.

I have also started to design parts knowing I can select the texture of the bottom by choosing the right plate.  

Glue is OK but today there are better options.

BTW, the old i3 clone is going to be rebuilt soon,  a magnetic plate is in the works, along with an eddy current bed sensor.

 

 

 

[netzwerg]

I only print PLA, ASA and Nylon-CF these days. Also, I only have closed printers nowadays (Vorons and Bambu X1Cs).

No more PETG (since ASA is just better). All of those stick well to my PEI sheets, so I am glad I got rid of messing with PVA glue stuff.

[PorcoMaster]

18 hours ago, chrisalbertson said:

Glue works fine.  I still use it on my old Prusa i3 clone.   But today we have magnetic plates that don't need glue.   I like the plate.  Rather than trying to remove the part from thje bed, I simply remove the entire bed, set it aside and put in another magnetic bed and start printing.   Later the bed cools and the part pops off on its own.

I guess you could do the same if you ownd several sheets of glass.

One thing I dislike about glue is the surface is never smooth.  OK, I need to buy an ink roller and lay down a mirror-smooth glue layer.   But why bother?  I can buy a smooth PEI plate.

I have also started to design parts knowing I can select the texture of the bottom by choosing the right plate.  

Glue is OK but today there are better options.

BTW, the old i3 clone is going to be rebuilt soon,  a magnetic plate is in the works, along with an eddy current bed sensor.

Yeah, the magnetic plate was my next addition, and I was planning on buying the whambam, that looks like the best brand as of today, however I started working on my new project a Voron Tower, and that one will have a magnetic plate, thing is I don't see the reason to keep investing on my monstrosity, my CR-10S pro, has more than 600 dollars invested, past it's original price and it's still not reliable, and I am tired of the sunk cust fallacy, so I will cut my losses, and keep as it is with glue on that printer.

[Joegeeks]

I love my glue stick!  Any prints that I do, that are left unattended get the stick!   I had a generic Chinese glue stick that works well too, but I ran out and now settling for my Elmer brand.   I also use a spring steel PIE sheet and the glue stick seems to wash out with warm water very nicely. 

I'll give the glue sticks a Thumbs Up! 

 

[BryantW]

I am actually more of a hair spray guy, I find I get god adhesion with PLA on my stock plates, especially glass. When printing PETG, I do use glue so I can be reasonably assured that the part will release without tearing the PEI or removing shards of glass. When printing ABS, I've found the best adhesion promoter to just be a clean bed and reasonable tramming. 

[Simon2.4]

On 4/28/2024 at 1:01 PM, BryantW said:

hair spray guy

I used "Dove" brand hairspray for a long time but I couldn't stand the EXTRA POWERFUL perfume they put in it anymore. It put styrene volatiles to shame.

[7milesup]

I use the cheapest crap I can find, which is usually Aquanet. I don't believe that it has any perfume in it either.

[zav3nd]

I started playing with TPU a bit, so I started using glue on my Trident. I didn't want TPU fused to my PEI sheet. After looking at the recommendations I went with Layerneer Bed Weld was cheaper per fl oz than some of the others and goes on clear. I probably should've just watered down my bottle of Titebond II instead. Probably nothing that special in the premade/prepackaged stuff.

[therm_virtual0y]

On 4/28/2024 at 10:01 AM, BryantW said:

I am actually more of a hair spray guy, I find I get god adhesion with PLA on my stock plates, especially glass. When printing PETG, I do use glue so I can be reasonably assured that the part will release without tearing the PEI or removing shards of glass. When printing ABS, I've found the best adhesion promoter to just be a clean bed and reasonable tramming. 

For me, hairspray works perfectly for everything except TPU needs some purple glue stick.  Had so much trouble with warping before.  Now only if I go too long (more than twice on same area) before adding more spray.

[BryantW]

So I stayed with the glue stick with PETG as I lost one plate not using anything.  Do you find the hair spray gives you good release with PETG?  If so, I'd switch to that as hair spray is so much easier to apply.

[xyleth]

Just to add my tuppence worth, I recently started experimenting with a 1:2:2 ratio mix of clear PVA, IPA and water and I've found it works great for me.  I found some school clear glue 'pens' in the local craft shop that don't actually say they're PVA but I assume they are as it is non-toxic water based glue.  They're 50ml pens so I empty one of those out and mix with 100ml of 99% IPA and 100ml of distilled water and shake.  Apply with a sponge-on-a-stick type brush and let the heat of the bed dry before printing.

It's helped with adhesion problems I've been having recently and releases cleanly once you've cooled the bed down.  The textured PEI bed that came with my Siboor kit was great initially but it has never been the same since I printed ABS on it.  None of the usual tricks (washing with dish soap, roughing with wire wool) worked to restore the adhesion so this mix was my last gasp before binning it and buying a new one.