why is the community as a whole so againt the elmer's glue or another method ?

[PorcoMaster]

so... i am in kind of awe right now, i always was the leveling preoccupied guy, getting my bed perfectly level, and so on, never wanted to use glue or anything like that, something might be wrong with my build after all.

thing is i always accomplish two things, a print that will release from bed in the worst time possible, or a print that will not release from the bed ever, doesn't matter how much force i apply.

i just made a small voron cube after remaking my cables, and i had to use pliers to take it off the build plate, i remembered that i had elmers glue on me, try it on, printer for 10 min cancelled the print, and the print was easy to take off... ok maybe bambu lab is not wrong on the glue thing,

pickup a bed that i had retired for now, because nothing sticked to it, pickup the glass side, pass the glue, 20 min later and the print it still there, cancelled and the glass didn't come together.

ok this is just magic, and i am the goddam wizard

what i am missing ? is it hard to clean later on ? it destroys the bed ?, i was ready to spend 150 dollars on a whambam magnetic flexible bed, but holy shit....

i must missing something, what i am missing ?

[zav3nd]

I used glue on my ender 3 to keep my parts from warping. On the voron I haven't needed to. I just like to avoid using more stuff if it isn't needed. I also hate cleaning the glue sticks off build plates... Just messy.

 

Voron is just using the plate that came with formbot 

[PorcoMaster]

9 minutes ago, zav3nd said:

I used glue on my ender 3 to keep my parts from warping. On the voron I haven't needed to. I just like to avoid using more stuff if it isn't needed. I also hate cleaning the glue sticks off build plates... Just messy.

Voron is just using the plate that came with formbot 

Don't get me wrong, I just used the voron cube because it was the first thing It came on my mind, my printer is actually a cr-10s pro v1, that is so heavily modified, that I could have bought a voron with the time and money I spend on it.

 

Always something having problems hahahaah.

 

I am actually building the voron tower right now, a project I am developing.

 

Sorry for skipping the subject.

 

Anyway, I always ruined from glue as the plague, but again if it works. It's better than spending 90-180 dollars on a whambam, I already printed ABS with a 110°C bed just to make it stick on the first layers.

I have 4 glass beds that i had to throw it out, because PeTG kept breaking my glasses.

 

I am sure after my voron is ready, the bed level will be so perfect that I will not need to be worried anymore.

 

But for my monstrosity of a printer the glue looks like an amazing cheat code.

 

It's the messiness on the bed the only problem ?

The print part looks fine. My unklicky is modified with a 2mm screw, never released the files, because I keep forgetting, but it should not get dirty as much as other unklicky alternatives.

There must be another thing I am missing.

 

 

Also, I really appreciate your response, thank you.

Edited April 11 by PorcoMaster

[GarthSnyder]

I think glue is largely considered passé because of the advent of PEI. You mention glass plates a couple of times, which makes me wonder if you’ve given PEI a proper try. It’s not great for PETG, though.

Either way, it’s perfectly fine to use glue. It does no harm, just creates a bit of mess. Very useful for PETG since it interposes a glue layer between the print and the bed it would otherwise bond to permanently.

[PorcoMaster]

1 hour ago, GarthSnyder said:

I think glue is largely considered passé because of the advent of PEI. You mention glass plates a couple of times, which makes me wonder if you’ve given PEI a proper try. It’s not great for PETG, though.

Either way, it’s perfectly fine to use glue. It does no harm, just creates a bit of mess. Very useful for PETG since it interposes a glue layer between the print and the bed it would otherwise bond to permanently.

first of all i appreciate your response, thank you

i did mention glue, because i really like the finish, but in the end, i had 7 different beds, one original that comes with pei, one extra that i bought with pei, one glass with pei, that you can use both sides. and i had 4 more glass that were float glass. all went to trash as PeTG just pulled the glass like it was some kind of candy.

the problem is not sticking in itself, the problem is the 8 or 80 kind of stuff. or it does stick or it doesn't release, i try so many things over the years, more temperature, less temperature. more close, more distant, sure i do not have a enclosure, and that might be the biggest difference between a normal printer and a voron and prints not releasing over time.

i just mentioned glass a lot, because while i love glass finish it does inherit a way higher risk of 8 or 80 problem. pei is way easier to make it stick just enough to be released after the bed is cold again. but it's still a problem.

let's say i have a problem with the 8 in 80 problem is 1 in 10 prints in pei and 1 in 5 on glass. but sincerely it's so infuriating, that the glue time doesn't seeing a problem overall.

Edited April 11 by PorcoMaster

[TitusADuxass]

If you want to use glue but also want a smooth finish try using PVA wood glue diluted 25/75 (ish) water and apply it with a foam brush.  It gives god adhesion with the thicker snot from glue sticks.

This is my glue jar.

[Simon2.4]

I tried a few things and what I like now is white pva glue diluted in 99% ipa. dries fast and super thin.

*Wiped with an IPA rag

I just put glue in the bed and spread it with the IPA rag. It dries in a few seconds

[SuperBoppy]

The PVA and IPA sounds like a great one that I have not heard of before. For glass bed, my favorite is hairspray. Buy the cheapest can of unscented hair spray you can find and spray an even coat on clean glass. You can even print PETG and it will remove easily.

[Dirk]

As I see it, glue, tape and other practice, is trying to compensate for faults in your system elsewhere. 

Check out videos of people that show their prints on youtube or ask people that run printerfarms. They seldom use aids on the bed.

I am not against using anything. If you want to, and it helps, please do so. But if you have to use it for every print, every filament, consider doing something about the reason why your prints need these helping aids.

I used so much glue when printing my 2.4 parts on my artillery sidewinder x2, that my sons complained and wanted replacement for all the glue I used up that was theirs. And I know it works. But I do not have to use it anymore, which makes my prints look better and my bed cleaner.

[Simon2.4]

3 hours ago, Dirk said:

As I see it, glue, tape and other practice, is trying to compensate for faults in your system elsewhere

Or just trying to print PLA on a PEI bed...

[zav3nd]

2 hours ago, Simon2.4 said:

Or just trying to print PLA on a PEI bed...

Weird, on smooth PEI sheet stuck to glass bed I never had an issue with PLA. But when I switched to ABS I had to use glue-stick and a brim.

[MrSprinklz]

My West3D build plate for my 2.4 works without glue (for ABS) at 100 C both smooth and textured sides for a while before finger oils and old prints lead to a little warping, at which point a quick clean with dish soap fixes it for another long time. My V0 plate of the same brand and at 110 C works for 1 print on smooth, maybe 2-3 on textured without glue before needing a wash. I'm lazy, I use glue on the V0 so I NEVER have to clean that plate. My ender is the same as the V0 but that's because its a cheap no-name pei plate as much as anything else.

[Raniz]

For me it's just the messiness of it and the chore of cleaning it up.

 

I just ordered a FR4 sheet to use since that's terrific for both PETG and Nylon. I had that on my previous printer and I've missed it.

Edited April 13 by Raniz

[Penatr8tor]

For the longest time I tried to be a purist and go bare nekkid on my PEI build plate. After a while the plate just didn't stick like it used to, so I tried Elmer's purple glue stick. That worked well but was blobbly and I hated the look of a smeared-up build plate, vanity issues... I know LOL. I finally bit the bullet and bought some MagiGoo. Goes on thin and clear. I get a good 5 or so prints before reapplying and I haven't even used half a bottle in over a year printing on 4 printers. I only use it for ABS-ASA and PET-G.

[geekandi]

I have only been in this hobby a little over 3 years, and I have too many printers, and I have never, ever, used any type of coating on my plates for any type of material.

I could myself lucky AF though. If I have a lift or warp I know it is my fault cause I touched the plate (Goddamnit, Donut!).

Now, friend of mine decided he wanted a slice/click/print printer and got themselves a X1C .. and has resorted to using glue. I had   face but not my pig, not my farm, as Wayne says.

[Poisson]

With the advent of PEI, glue should no longer be needed unless you are using some sort of engineering filament that specifically calls for an interface layer of some kind. PEI holds onto plastic like it is glue and doesn't let go until it cools down.

What kind of PEI sheets have you used? Any from a competent vendor, or just different chinesium brands? I tuned all my printers using using the Andrew Elis print guide (increasing first layer width and stuff definitely helps!) and I've stuck to Wham Bam smooth PEX sheets for everything and I've never had any major adhesion issues that weren't fixed by some cleaning with ISO.

The 2-sided PEI plate that came with my Formbot 2.4 kit was pretty awful on the smooth side, but plastic still stuck to it and it worked till I accidently ripped that thin PEI off the plate. The textured side worked better and acted more like I was used to with the Whambam sheets.

At the end of the day, get some thick pei from a quality vendor, make sure you've followed recommendations in the Andrew Elis guide, and you shouldn't have any major adhesion problem or need to use glue.

Edited April 14 by Poisson

[PorcoMaster]

On 4/12/2024 at 3:54 AM, TitusADuxass said:

If you want to use glue but also want a smooth finish try using PVA wood glue diluted 25/75 (ish) water and apply it with a foam brush.  It gives god adhesion with the thicker snot from glue sticks.

This is my glue jar.

sorry for taking so long to answer, i was traveling, i really appreciate your idea, and i will definitely try, better than getting a huge cylinder over the entire bed haha

[PorcoMaster]

On 4/12/2024 at 6:30 AM, Simon2.4 said:

I tried a few things and what I like now is white pva glue diluted in 99% ipa. dries fast and super thin.

sorry for taking so long to answer, i was traveling, love your improved idea, i have access to 99% ipa so it might work as good as the other one.

[PorcoMaster]

On 4/12/2024 at 7:42 AM, Dirk said:

As I see it, glue, tape and other practice, is trying to compensate for faults in your system elsewhere. 

Check out videos of people that show their prints on youtube or ask people that run printerfarms. They seldom use aids on the bed.

I am not against using anything. If you want to, and it helps, please do so. But if you have to use it for every print, every filament, consider doing something about the reason why your prints need these helping aids.

I used so much glue when printing my 2.4 parts on my artillery sidewinder x2, that my sons complained and wanted replacement for all the glue I used up that was theirs. And I know it works. But I do not have to use it anymore, which makes my prints look better and my bed cleaner.

sorry for taking so long to answer, i was traveling, while i already believed as yourself, i started changing my view of things after i heard that the x1c bamboo lab asks for glue, it's a entire beast of a machine, why would it ask for glue. then i start not judging as much, but either way, i just tried now the glue thing, and i don't hate it as much as i though i would.

[PorcoMaster]

On 4/13/2024 at 2:05 PM, geekandi said:

I have only been in this hobby a little over 3 years, and I have too many printers, and I have never, ever, used any type of coating on my plates for any type of material.

I could myself lucky AF though. If I have a lift or warp I know it is my fault cause I touched the plate (Goddamnit, Donut!).

Now, friend of mine decided he wanted a slice/click/print printer and got themselves a X1C .. and has resorted to using glue. I had   face but not my pig, not my farm, as Wayne says.

sorry for taking so long to answer, i was traveling, that is exactly the reason, i started looking at glue without judging why the most expensive machine on bambo lab at the date asked for glue, while the cheapest one didn't. and then i started thinking, but i was always against it.

[PorcoMaster]

On 4/14/2024 at 11:36 AM, Poisson said:

With the advent of PEI, glue should no longer be needed unless you are using some sort of engineering filament that specifically calls for an interface layer of some kind. PEI holds onto plastic like it is glue and doesn't let go until it cools down.

What kind of PEI sheets have you used? Any from a competent vendor, or just different chinesium brands? I tuned all my printers using using the Andrew Elis print guide (increasing first layer width and stuff definitely helps!) and I've stuck to Wham Bam smooth PEX sheets for everything and I've never had any major adhesion issues that weren't fixed by some cleaning with ISO.

The 2-sided PEI plate that came with my Formbot 2.4 kit was pretty awful on the smooth side, but plastic still stuck to it and it worked till I accidently ripped that thin PEI off the plate. The textured side worked better and acted more like I was used to with the Whambam sheets.

At the end of the day, get some thick pei from a quality vendor, make sure you've followed recommendations in the Andrew Elis guide, and you shouldn't have any major adhesion problem or need to use glue.

sorry for taking so long to answer, i was traveling, you might actually hit the spot, my pei shits are maybe just shit. i will build my new project the voron tower, and i will be extra careful in buying something of quality, i am thinking in going with wham bam, are they good quality, i will stick with glue on my cr-10s pro, but on my voron tower i want the real deal for sure.

[PorcoMaster]

On 4/12/2024 at 4:17 PM, MrSprinklz said:

My West3D build plate for my 2.4 works without glue (for ABS) at 100 C both smooth and textured sides for a while before finger oils and old prints lead to a little warping, at which point a quick clean with dish soap fixes it for another long time. My V0 plate of the same brand and at 110 C works for 1 print on smooth, maybe 2-3 on textured without glue before needing a wash. I'm lazy, I use glue on the V0 so I NEVER have to clean that plate. My ender is the same as the V0 but that's because its a cheap no-name pei plate as much as anything else.

sorry for taking so long to answer, i was traveling, i had great sucess in the past, someone mentioned about the quality of pei, and that might just be it, i prefer to just use glue, on my printer because i am starting a new project, and i don't want to sink more money into it. but yeah i think you gave me a good experience to understand.

[PorcoMaster]

On 4/13/2024 at 6:21 AM, Raniz said:

For me it's just the messiness of it and the chore of cleaning it up.

I just ordered a FR4 sheet to use since that's terrific for both PETG and Nylon. I had that on my previous printer and I've missed it.

sorry for taking so long to answer, i was traveling, never heard about FR4 sheet, i am about to run a 120 dollar filament nylon/carbon fiber print, i will look into this fr4, but sincerely i hope the glue will be enough.

[PorcoMaster]

On 4/13/2024 at 10:25 AM, Penatr8tor said:

For the longest time I tried to be a purist and go bare nekkid on my PEI build plate. After a while the plate just didn't stick like it used to, so I tried Elmer's purple glue stick. That worked well but was blobbly and I hated the look of a smeared-up build plate, vanity issues... I know LOL. I finally bit the bullet and bought some MagiGoo. Goes on thin and clear. I get a good 5 or so prints before reapplying and I haven't even used half a bottle in over a year printing on 4 printers. I only use it for ABS-ASA and PET-G.

sorry for taking so long to answer, i was traveling, yeah, the same feelings i am having right now, i will  try the PVA + IPA combination at first, but i always heard great things about magigoo.

Edited April 15 by PorcoMaster

[Nurgelrot]

On 4/13/2024 at 8:25 AM, Penatr8tor said:

For the longest time I tried to be a purist and go bare nekkid on my PEI build plate. After a while the plate just didn't stick like it used to, so I tried Elmer's purple glue stick. That worked well but was blobbly and I hated the look of a smeared-up build plate, vanity issues... I know LOL. I finally bit the bullet and bought some MagiGoo. Goes on thin and clear. I get a good 5 or so prints before reapplying and I haven't even used half a bottle in over a year printing on 4 printers. I only use it for ABS-ASA and PET-G.

Agree I use a glue stick for everything. Not to help anything stick, PEI is usually good for sticktion. More to help me get stuff back off (esp PETG). So all my plates are blotchy messes. But they work. I'll have to try MagiGoo sometime. But I can get a 3 pack of good old Elmers any place cheap so... One stick lastes years.