Formbot Kit for Voron 2.4 R2

[Buurman]

Because I build my printers (v2.4 R2 350mm) from Formbot kits always, and now about 12 build so far, I want to help others thinking about this kit.

Since end of Feb 2022 the kit is shipped with Moons stepping motor for the Stealthburner (round 17mm version)
I have always ordered these separately and these motors are very good and very temperature resistant, I prefer them over LDO motors.

Tip for european people, chose shipping from Czech and when paying with PAypal CHOOSE last moment VALUTA options, choose to pay in dollars! 
This way you DONT use exchange rate from paypal, but your credit card company, this often saves you 70 dollar or more, exchange rate from paypal is insane!!

I dont advise using the default cable kit, while its ok for the electronics bay (perfect actually) the cables are not perfect for the moving parts.
I had cables breaking 2 times, and I now build all printers with the Fermio cable kit, lighter, thinner, and extremely durable, but, its about 125 euro.

Any questions about the kit, happy to help, I can really advise this kit.

[smirk]

You are the forum's very own Martin Lewis! Really useful information, just too late for me and my "secret" 2.4 in the attic.

 

[Jasiek]

What about linear rail? These form Czech are ok? Preload Z0 is ok or you have to replace some rails? 

[Buurman]

The rails is good, I never replace them, they are definitely not the cheap ones you also can buy on Ali.

the grease channel on the cards works also.

they are full stainless steel.

just clean them a little (they are not highly pre oiled) and grease them with… well, whatever you think is right, so many opinions on this

 

[VoronManiac]

@buurman for Lubing the rails what "grease channel on the cards" you mean?  I am struggling to figure out how to re-lube the rails once everything is installed.  Agree they are much better quality than what I got from Ali.  CNCMANS is a global supplier available in Amazon US that I am very pleased with similar quality to LDO at lower price.  The Formbot rails don't have grease zurks or holes...  EP1 seems recommended by Hiwin for normal loads.

My 3rd Formbot kit 2022-07 from 3DPrintersBay out of California.  Still shipped with the old square Afterburner stepper motor. PEI build plate was single side textured, bare steel on the other.  No issues with cast build plate.

The wiring bundle supplied with the kit is thoughtful but misses the mark, the primary wiring was useful, but ditched most of the wiring out to the print head. For some reason, folks tend to way oversize the extruder stepper motor wires; they are only carrying 300-400mA on StealthBurner.  26awg is more than enough.  The wiring kit also contained many wire pairs that were redundant.  For better or worse I went with 19 strand PTFE from ebay to help things slide more easily in the cable chain. Don't combine analog and digital grounds as suggested by some folks elsewhere to save a wire. I struggle paying a chunk of change for a prefabricated wire harness.  Quickly building a harness is pretty easy if you have the "correct" crimping tool (finally found one that totally works IWISS IWS-3220M clone; genuine PA-09 is overpriced junk).

A huge point of warning is to check that all the extrusions are flat and not bowed or twisted.  I used a flat section of my kitchen quartz composite counter top as a reference.  A glass table top is probably not good enough. Can also compare each rail to the others for bowing & twists. In this latest kit, there were 4 lengths of 2020 that have issues. In the very first kit, I had a twisted Y 2020 that took forever to diagnose.  The frame extrusion faces are generally nicely square. 

I struggled to decide to buy the 3rd kit knowing the E stepper & wiring would be tossed.  Still probably a good choice compared to self sourcing.

[val]

Hi everyone,

I find myself in need of guidance, as I want to acquire a voron 2.4 printer, and I'm balancing towards the formbot kit. 

I've used 3D printers (only a little) but never owned one. I have a practical mind, but close to no skill on computers. So I should be fairly worried about building a Voron, but from what I saw the community around these is greatly helping. So I'm still worried, but less.

The reasons for my inclination towards the voron 2.4, and specifically the formbot kit are:

- I'm a sucker for good hardware. I don't want a cheap or medium printer, and if I don't necessarily want THE best, i definitely want one of the good ones.

- It looks... Just soooo much fun and rewarding to build these kit printers. I know I might struggle at times, but it's part of the fun to me.

- As a system and as a kit, what I can read about them is really positive.

- I love the idea that I'm not buying from a brand, and that I can make it evolve exactly the way I want.

So that's about it for my personal context. I'm psyched. (And I'm french, so my expressions might be slightly off)

 

My questions:

What exactly is included in the formbot kit? Or better still: what isn't ??? I know I have to buy the printed parts (since I don't have a printer of my own), but appart from that I don't understand what more I need to have it function. I know the raspberry pi isn't included, but do I need it or is it only to put klipper on it ? Maybe I can implement that later in the process ? 

If I'm being honest, I'd really like a "shopping list" that I could tick items off of.

 

To put it simply, I'd like to know what is absolutely necessary to buy in addition to the formbot kit, and what I really should buy to improve it. 

I'm sure someone already asked something like that, but can't find it.... And this seems like a good place to ask.

Thanks so much

 

PS: please let me know if I'm not quite on the right post, or forum, or else ..

 

[Buurman]

Next to the kit you need some Tools, for wiring, sometimes you need to put other MOLEX connectors on there, etc. Buy a good set of hex wrenches? (I am not sure about the english name) ... inbus?

Soldering device (nothing fancy) for soldering (duh) but also for heat inserts into the plastic.

Change the cables on the kit, and buy a Fermio wire harness, it will pay off, since the default ones WILL break.

You will need a RPi4, but a 3B will work fine too (i am currently running on a 3B.) 

[PFarm]

2 minutes ago, Buurman said:

.You will need a RPi4, but a 3B will work fine too (i am currently running on a 3B.) 

A good alternative is a BTT CB1 with CM4 module, one nice feature is the EMMC so once set up no need for an SD card. Running this on my printer and working flawlessly 

[claudermilk]

As @Buurman said, you will need a tools kit. This thread is an excellent starting point for your shopping list.

A Raspberry Pi of some sort is required for Klipper--that's where it lives. For a V2.4, a Pi3 minimum. There are controller boards out there using a CM4 or the CB1 substitute, but I'm finding that CM4s are as hard as regular Pis to get (I'm looking for a 2GB+ CM4 for a different project--no luck so far). Of course if you're willing to spend 3-5x list prince they are out there with the scalpers. There are the Pi clones that have been used, they just take a little more effort to run; with your stated weak point being software that may not be the best idea with this project.

[val]

1 hour ago, claudermilk said:

As @Buurman said, you will need a tools kit. This thread is an excellent starting point for your shopping list.

Wow, that's great thanks ! That'll make a significant addition to the bill, that comforts me in buying the Formbot instead of the LDO

I'll also add the fermio harness and the cables

And for the raspberry, I'll keep it simple and go with the basics (so 3B or RPI4... I'll definitely need to inquire on the subject, because it's gibberish to me right now )

If I have troubles with the raspberry and/or Klipper, will the printer work without it in the meantime ? as would a "standard" printer (without input shaping, smooth pressure advance,...) ?

Thanks again guys

[Buurman]

Nope the raspberry is the brains of it all, no brains, no printer.

And klipper is your operating system for the printer, running on the raspberry.

so you really need it, but you still have a few weeks, start the physical build first….

[val]

33 minutes ago, Buurman said:

Nope the raspberry is the brains of it all, no brains, no printer.

And klipper is your operating system for the printer, running on the raspberry.

so you really need it, but you still have a few weeks, start the physical build first….

Ok I feel like I'm gonna keep realising what a noob I am as the project goes on. But I'm ok with it

[Simon2.4]

2 hours ago, val said:

Ok I feel like I'm gonna keep realising what a noob I am as the project goes on. But I'm ok with it

Many of us have tackled Vorons with no Linux knowledge whatsoever. Gladly, everything is so well documented that you can just follow the steps blindly and it should all work just fine. It did for me

When you do hit snags, you'll find plenty of help here to keep you going !

[mvdveer]

9 hours ago, val said:

If I'm being honest, I'd really like a "shopping list" that I could tick items off of.

Here is a good place to start - the configuration section will tell you exactly what you need.  The formbot kit should list what is included and having build two kits so far, everything except the Raspberry Pi is included. You can then compare the two and see what is left. The idea of the kit is that you do not need to purchase anything else.

As others have said, you need a range of tools. Most important, and what I would purchase first, is a set of good ball hex drivers, as this is essential to put everything together. If you order a kit, the wiring will be crimped and you don't have to initially worry about crimpers and the like.

Another alternative to the Raspberry pi is the Rock 4 pi board which I have not tries as yet and probably would not recommend as a beginner, as it has not been thoroughly tested as yet.

It may look like a huge mountain to climb, but there are plenty of forum members that will help you up the hill and make the journey easy.

 

[val]

On 4/18/2023 at 6:40 PM, val said:

And for the raspberry, I'll keep it simple and go with the basics (so 3B or RPI4... I'll definitely need to inquire on the subject, because it's gibberish to me right now )

Lol "keep it simple and go with the 3B or 4B"... I hadn't checked the availability at the time. That's gonna postpone my project a little bit, I'm not ready to add 200€ instead of the "supposed" price. I'm already over-budget enough as it is... I'll keep you updated if they really intend to re-stock early 2023

[7milesup]

@val  As others have mentioned, a Big Tree Tech (BTT) CB1 and a CM4 (Raspberry Compute Module 4) is a good alternative to a stand-alone Raspberry Pi.  I have an Orange Pi 3 LTS running in mine just fine but I would recommend an Orange Pi 4LTS if you go the Orange route. 
It was an uphill slog for me, but with the amazing members on here, we got her running.  

Building a Voron is very rewarding, but it can also be frustrating at times.  When you are done with your build, though, the printer is YOURS, meaning that you can customize it however you want.  Mine has dark blue accents with an aluminum bottom plate, an extra aluminum plate beneath the bed, TAP add-on, a different rear bowden tube entry than standard,  0.25" thick bronze smoked side panels and running an Orange Pi 3LTS.  There probably is not another one in the world exactly like it.     I would suggest building it "stock" to get started, however.

[claudermilk]

CM4s are even harder to get your hands on than a regular Pi. Ask me how I know. 

[val]

That's crazy, I had no idea there was such a shortage of SBCs and such... 

Does anyone have experience with the BIGTREETECH Manta M4P/M8P/M5P ? 

https://biqu.equipment/products/manta-m4p-m8p?variant=39847239155810

They make it look awesome, but being new on this subject I can't actually understand / decode the marketing part...

[Buurman]

The M8P can be nice with the CM1 board on it, but I been experimenting with other boards too, The M8P seems to have al the required connection an Octopus got.

Still, try to get a Raspberry pi3b or 4 1,2,4 or 8 Gb all work fine and a Octopus 1.1 board.

Why? If you want to add display, anything will work, I like the BTT 4" PiTFT very much. Same for a USB cam.... Also the setup is super easy and the most experiences everywhere, so you will always find help, this is not the case with a Orangi, or other clone.

I like the OrangPI, but you need a hdmi screen for example, with also a usb connection. That just a shame and two cable sticking out, can be helpful maybe in some cases..

What im saying, stay to defaults for now, you will get the most out of it in support, like you said yourself, it may be challenging enough, try to avoid extra challenges, go that path maybe later after some experience, like I did on my.. 8th voron  and still experimenting AND learning! at my 14th...

[val]

I believe you. For now I'm gonna keep an eye out for a RPI, and in the meantime I'll concentrate on the building part of the project... That'll give me some time to wait for the right SBC 

14 vorons ???

 

[Buurman]

True, try to daily keep an eye on the RPI stock list, or find a favorit suplier and look at their website few times a day.

I do this in the netherlands on Kiwi electronics and they suprise me ones in a while with some stock, that sells out in 15 minutes.

You need to get lucky.. it puberty all over again  

[mvdveer]

BTT in the process to release there BTT Pi (if you can trust their facebook page). Don't know about supply though.

   

[mvdveer]

9 hours ago, Buurman said:

True, try to daily keep an eye on the RPI stock list, or find a favorit suplier and look at their website few times a day.

I have been notified by me supplier that they are now available in Oz, and will pick up two today to play with - see if they are easy to set up with klipper and how well they integrate with the 3d print environment.

EDIT: See my post under Rock Pi 4 - don't want to hijack your thread. "RockPi4 - dit is zo frustrerend!"

[7milesup]

I'm sure you guys have seen this....

 

https://biqu.equipment/products/bigtreetech-pad-7

[smirk]

3 hours ago, 7milesup said:

I'm sure you guys have seen this....

https://biqu.equipment/products/bigtreetech-pad-7

Yup, but personally I'd probably avoid such an integrated product on the grounds that customisation could be a challenge. Well perhaps not a challenge to make but possibly a challenge to keep. They'll no doubt use standardised images which will blatter any custom changes you make. That's purely a suspicion, partially based on the Crealty PAD thingy that my dad bought. Great for him but not for someone who wants to tinker and tweak as things get over written.

Ignore that drivel, it's "standard"/regular images if you're using the harder-to-obtain-than-unobtanium Raspberry PI CM1 or BTT CB1 modules. You with CM1 you could run MainsailOS (say).