Beacon Probe - cloned already?

[mvdveer]

Just went in search for a replacement for a PINDA probe for the V-Minion, but my search brought up a hell of a lot of "beacon scanner" clones - advertised as IDM scanner levelling sensor. (Maybe because I just ordered some Beacon scanners (genuine ones) from beacon3d, just before searching for pinda probes)

Surprised to see that there are canbus versions as well, not only USB versions. And they are not called "Normal. Low Profile or right angle) but "for Voron (normal), VZBot (low profile) and 90 degree type (Right angle).

Won't know what the quality will be like, nor will I know as I do not intend to order any of these clones. Happy to pay a bit more and support the developers of an EXCELLENT product. (Pre-ordered the H- Version)

[Dirk]

I have been introduced to Beacon here on this forum by you. It looks like an enormous improvement, compared to the omron and TAP probes. I am actually very happy with TAP as it functions right now, but because I did not find a TAP for the ZERO printers, I did look Beacon up yesterday, and found the beacond3d site. Importing one (version D) to Holland, would cost me 109 euros. Two 152 euros, three 285 euros. In every case more than half to shipping and import rights.

Compared to TAP (20-30 euros) or a Klicky (10 euros) or an Omron (6 euros) big difference. Anyway, I guess luxury should cost a bit, I guess I will wait a bit longer and see if Buurman's favorite local dutch store will have it available, which might matter in shipping or taxes.

 

[mvdveer]

36 minutes ago, Dirk said:

did not find a TAP for the ZERO printers

@Dirk (also the name of my brother) There is a TAP alternative for the Salad Fork and Micron - I have this on my micron and it performs just like it's big brother  - BOOP. Has been in Beta4 for about 5months now - so I assume this may well close to the final version. (or there will be a major change - who knows). As you said - non yet for V0 or switchwire. 

You can also try the "cloned beacon probes" . 

[Dirk]

I am glad Dirk is a common name around here  Thank you so much for BOOP. I had indeed seen you reference it in one of your zero builds, but thought it was one of those other abbreviations you guys here use that I haven't read about yet, like GOM  Searching - TAP for zero did not get me any results, but I know now where to look... in the 'for ants mods'... You are indeed the king of mods!

I just checked my favorite shop, and indeed there are many vague shops that offer the clones you mention. I can get one for 41 euros only. Same price for either the CAN or the USB version...

On youtube there are only videos about Beacon. Not the IDM sensor from China. I wonder how it will perform. 

Well... I have an ERCF to build first. Then I will get to my zero build which I just purchased for a steal price during black friday sales. By that time I will decide what to do. I am very interested in beacon though. 

Thanks again, and btw, I do agree with you that the idea developer should be supported... I am sure as the inventor, he will always be a few steps ahead compared to the clones.

 

[Crashdown]

Yeah the Canbus functionality was what drew my attention. It would be nice if Beacon could do a version so I could get rid of the USB cable to the toolhead.

There is some info here:

Edit: The link was removed but if you google 'beacon knockoff' there is a reddit thread about the IDM scanner.

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Crashdown

[Bender_Rodríguez]

On 12/10/2023 at 7:53 AM, Crashdown said:

Yeah the Canbus functionality was what drew my attention. It would be nice if Beacon could do a version so I could get rid of the USB cable to the toolhead.

There is some info here:

I've got a canbus/USB cable so it's still only one cable going to toolhead

https://3do.eu/cables/1039-3do-can-bus-usb-cable-fepsilicone-26awg2p24awg2c20awg2c.html

[Crashdown]

7 hours ago, Bender_Rodríguez said:

I've got a canbus/USB cable so it's still only one cable going to toolhead

https://3do.eu/cables/1039-3do-can-bus-usb-cable-fepsilicone-26awg2p24awg2c20awg2c.html

Yeah I've see those and it looks like a quality solution but its still more connections in a thicker cable and more importantly they aren't really available ouside Europe and the US.

I used just some generic twisted pair cable for a while but I didn't like how thick it was along with needing a larger CNlinko connector for all the wires so I went back to the smaller connector and USB cable just bundled together. My dream is still a lightweight 4 core cable to do everything.

 

[Dirk]

I have purchased a clone. The one called IDM. The CAN version for Voron. It is on its way to me.

From the seller I received a document which has instructions. Luckily it is all in Chinese, so google translated it for me.

There are instructions on how to set up the device. Some instructions on what to do additionally for the CAN version.

There are 2 additional maps that have binary files (CAN boot and Firmware).

In the instructions there is also a STEP file for a mount. (attached)

The document mentions a gitee website, where the install scripts are: https://gitee.com/NBTP/IDM.git

Its apparently active since a couple of months. .

More when I receive the IDM scanner

Stealthburner.Carriage.IDM.STEP

[Paul Trautner]

15 hours ago, Dirk said:

I have purchased a clone. The one called IDM. The CAN version for Voron. It is on its way to me.

From the seller I received a document which has instructions. Luckily it is all in Chinese, so google translated it for me.

There are instructions on how to set up the device. Some instructions on what to do additionally for the CAN version.

There are 2 additional maps that have binary files (CAN boot and Firmware).

In the instructions there is also a STEP file for a mount. (attached)

The document mentions a gitee website, where the install scripts are: https://gitee.com/NBTP/IDM.git

Its apparently active since a couple of months. .

More when I receive the IDM scanner

Stealthburner.Carriage.IDM.STEP 2.51 MB · 1 download

I am going to install my cabus version over the holiday and when searching online they say the IDM scanner is the same as the cartographer probe which has better instructions. 

 

Welcome - Cartographer 3D

[Dirk]

7 hours ago, Paul Trautner said:

...Welcome - Cartographer 3D

Thank you very much for the link @Paul Trautner. 

I think you are right. Or the people online are right
It looks the same, the firmware/scripts/binarys have the same directory structure and the mount also looks the same. Even the price is the same what I bought it for. So it must be the same.

And the fact it is on github and not on gitee, already makes a huge difference (Non-chinese characters helps). What also made me happy and feel less guilty for buying a 'clone', is that they mention that the sensor is not a BEACON. But it is an Eddy-Current-sensor. Making it a known concept that the designer of Beacon used to implement his product.

Cool... so the IDM and Cartographer 3D are not clones  @mvdveer clean conscience  Explains why there is a CAN version of the IDM and cartographer, but not one of the Beacon.

Anyway. I hope your setup will be successful. Please let us know how things go.

[Paul Trautner]

45 minutes ago, Dirk said:

Thank you very much for the link @Paul Trautner. 

I think you are right. Or the people online are right
It looks the same, the firmware/scripts/binarys have the same directory structure and the mount also looks the same. Even the price is the same what I bought it for. So it must be the same.

And the fact it is on github and not on gitee, already makes a huge difference (Non-chinese characters helps). What also made me happy and feel less guilty for buying a 'clone', is that they mention that the sensor is not a BEACON. But it is an Eddy-Current-sensor. Making it a known concept that the designer of Beacon used to implement his product.

Cool... so the IDM and Cartographer 3D are not clones  @mvdveer clean conscience  Explains why there is a CAN version of the IDM and cartographer, but not one of the Beacon.

Anyway. I hope your setup will be successful. Please let us know how things go.

Just found that you need to install the IDM git per their instructions, using the cartographer git caused a MCU not update error but switch to IDM instructions solved it. The only issue I have now is when I put probe:z_virtual_endstop I am getting a error message in klipper saying invalid pin. Seems like after that is resolved it should be working

[mvdveer]

43 minutes ago, Dirk said:

Explains why there is a CAN version of the IDM and cartographer, but not one of the Beacon.

Let's order a can version and go for it!. Thanks everyone for all the handy and relevant advice! Learned about eddy_current today!,

Thanks @Dirk and @Paul Trautner

I've jumped on the band-wagon

 

[Dirk]

5 minutes ago, mvdveer said:

Thanks @Dirk and @Paul Trautner

I've jumped on the band-wagon

Cool! You would be able to compare it to a more widely used version (The Beacon3D)

And I was planning to make it my first CAN setup. while you have your whole printerfarm running on CAN.

[Dirk]

8 minutes ago, Paul Trautner said:

Just found that you need to install the IDM git per their instructions, using the cartographer git caused a MCU not update error but switch to IDM instructions solved it. The only issue I have now is when I put probe:z_virtual_endstop I am getting a error message in klipper saying invalid pin. Seems like after that is resolved it should be working

Hmm.. another proof it is the same. Confusing though. This means the IDM git is more recent than the cartographer3d one. Ok. Good to know.

I have no idea though how to fix your problem. I remember I had to do a probe:z_virtual_endstop when I removed the Z-endstop and replaced it by TAP.

[Paul Trautner]

2 hours ago, Dirk said:

Hmm.. another proof it is the same. Confusing though. This means the IDM git is more recent than the cartographer3d one. Ok. Good to know.

I have no idea though how to fix your problem. I remember I had to do a probe:z_virtual_endstop when I removed the Z-endstop and replaced it by TAP.

Yes I had it in the configuration file before from voron tap but not sure about this one. Reached out on the discord and the aliexpress seller

[mvdveer]

41 minutes ago, Paul Trautner said:

Yes I had it in the configuration file before from voron tap but not sure about this one.

Silly question - Is your whole [probe] section commented out, including #[probe]?

Just looked at my beacon config and reread the beacon installation and cannot see anything different.

endstop_pin: probe:z_virtual_endstop    # use beacon as virtual endstop
homing_retract_dist: 0   # Beacon does not require a homing retract. Setting this to something other than 0 will cause occasional erroneous results.

But then, my beacon is connected via USB. 

In the [IDM] section is the probe defined by UUID,  (canbus_uuid: xxxxxx) and not by (serial:  /dev/serial/by-id/usb_XXXXX)?

 

 

[Dirk]

12 hours ago, Paul Trautner said:

.. Reached out on the discord and the aliexpress seller

I am sure the aliexpress seller will not be able to help you. They are just sellers. (Of course exceptions prove the rule)

I just did a search for "klipper z_virtual_endstop invalid pin" and I get this. Is it an idea to remove the reference to the pin in printer.cfg?

The Klipper reference says:  If using "probe:z_virtual_endstop" then do not define a position_endstop in the stepper_z config section.

And according to this post, Klipper seems to be case sensitive: "Change probe:Z_virtual_endstop to probe:z_virtual_endstop"

 it is good to ask on Klipper discord  I am sure the gurus there would know.

[Paul Trautner]

8 hours ago, Dirk said:

I am sure the aliexpress seller will not be able to help you. They are just sellers. (Of course exceptions prove the rule)

I just did a search for "klipper z_virtual_endstop invalid pin" and I get this. Is it an idea to remove the reference to the pin in printer.cfg?

The Klipper reference says:  If using "probe:z_virtual_endstop" then do not define a position_endstop in the stepper_z config section.

And according to this post, Klipper seems to be case sensitive: "Change probe:Z_virtual_endstop to probe:z_virtual_endstop"

 it is good to ask on Klipper discord  I am sure the gurus there would know.

Forgot to remove endstop position. Seems to be working now. I followed the cartographer directions but used the idm links from the word document. After I get the printer fully built I can test the full functionality.

[7milesup]

On 12/21/2023 at 8:38 AM, Dirk said:

I am sure the aliexpress seller will not be able to help you. They are just sellers. (Of course exceptions prove the rule)

I just did a search for "klipper z_virtual_endstop invalid pin" and I get this. Is it an idea to remove the reference to the pin in printer.cfg?

The Klipper reference says:  If using "probe:z_virtual_endstop" then do not define a position_endstop in the stepper_z config section.

And according to this post, Klipper seems to be case sensitive: "Change probe:Z_virtual_endstop to probe:z_virtual_endstop"

 it is good to ask on Klipper discord  I am sure the gurus there would know.

I can't answer your first question because I can't pull up my config file at the moment, but YES, Klipper is case-sensitive.

[Paul Trautner]

Picture shows I decided to wire it to the stealthburner with a SB2040 mellow board. Anyone using the SB2040 pro board with the 2240 driver? I am getting a uart error when trying to move the extruder and thier docs only show the 2209 driver

[Dirk]

Through the Cartographer website I joined the Cartographer discord. There a learned a whole lot more about Cartographer and its 'creator/seller'.

I really liked their discord, because it is so small and simple and organised. I guess this was how Discord was meant to be  You can find all kinds of information (like on their website) and they have an active channel where anyone can post his questions.

The main man RichardTHF is active, apparently a guy who sells the Cartographer, organizes it and packages it (with his wife) and sends it out from Shenzhen, China to all over the world. If I read it right, Cartographer has the same circuitry and chip as the IDM probe.

The latest updated version as of yesterday (22 december) is a can/usb in one version. You simply set which you want to use in the software.

The main difference between Cartographer and Beacon is that the Cartographer uses a cheaper chip that can withstand temperatures up to 80 degrees. Beacon can go up to 120 I believe. And the problem is that you can't cool the chip separately, because it is so close to the nozzle. 

On the website and on discord it is advised to use the SB2209 from BTT. But on his channel he gives out advise to people asking about other boards. So I think this will be a good place for you to ask @Paul Trautner

As a reaction to someone asking about connecting can to FlySHT he wrote: "- 5v and GND from the SHT. CAN H and CAN L from the cable, you can just splice it and solder it as a spur. "

I think this is also an answer to your question above, but to be sure, ask him in the channel. 

[Paul Trautner]

@Dirk thanks for the information, mellow sent me the web link last night so everything is now working. For wiring I stole 5V from the endstop and tap into the can line like you described. I went with this over the beacon probe due to canbus, I did not want a special cable or 2 cables running to the print head. We will see if the lower temp causes any issues 

[Dirk]

1 hour ago, Paul Trautner said:

...mellow sent me the web link...

after reading this review / evaluation of several current CAN options, I decided to order a Mellow Fly SB 2040, which arrived yesterday. So I will be interested also in the steps you follow, so can you tell me the link Mellow gave you? matters a mail to them  

The 80 degrees temperature limitation should not be a problem unless in extreme situations like I have seen described in this forum with another CAN toolhead (temperatures up to 75 degrees in a V0.1 with a BTT EBB36.

[Crashdown]

39 minutes ago, Dirk said:

after reading this review / evaluation of several current CAN options, I decided to order a Mellow Fly SB 2040, which arrived yesterday. So I will be interested also in the steps you follow, so can you tell me the link Mellow gave you? matters a mail to them  

The 80 degrees temperature limitation should not be a problem unless in extreme situations like I have seen described in this forum with another CAN toolhead (temperatures up to 75 degrees in a V0.1 with a BTT EBB36.

Mellow promised me they would update their github links but they still haven't.

If you get the SB2040v2 the docs are here: https://mellow-3d.github.io/index.html  Just click on canbus boards and then the V2 model.

If you get the SB2040Pro model you can use most of the same docs as the above V2 but also need this: https://mellow.klipper.cn/#/  for pin names and a klipper config reference. Click on start your journey and then under toolboard is SB2040 series, SB-2040-Pro  
https://mellow.klipper.cn/#/board/fly_sb2040_pro/README
You have to click on the tiny grey arrow next to the name on some of the menus.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Crashdown

[Paul Trautner]

Here is the link mellow sent for the pro version

https://mellow.klipper.cn/?spm=a2g0s.imconversation.0.0.27393e5foWYhY0&lang=en#/board/fly_sb2040_pro/cfg

Here is the link for the 2209 version which I have used in my other printer with no issues

https://mellow.klipper.cn/#/board/fly_sb2040/