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Switchwire Layer Quality - Improvements


Penatr8tor

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After having finished my Switchwire I'm finding it a considerable challenge getting the same layer consistency as my Voron 2.4 300.

I'll post up some photos of what I'm experiencing in the hope that someone has encountered this issue and may have some insight as to how it can be improved.

Stay tuned.

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What is the problem you are facing? is it first layer? or is general layer consistency/unecual layer lines?

I find suprising that this happens precisely with a z belted. Should on paper be much better  than a normal "ender" leadscrew.

 

I found that over tensioning wasn´t working great... and I have my belts on the loose side.

Dissable stealthchop (if enabled)

Use a mechanical probe. The omron is rather terrible, basically due temperature readings shift (only really affects first layer).

I´m really surprised seeing people unhappy with switchwires. Taking in account most of us have built it re-using an old ender frame, we should find it rather good.

if you upload some pictures, we may be able to further assist.

 

🙂

 

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I have a Switchwire too, actually 2 of them, one is with Z-microswitch endstop and the other with Omron TL-Q5MC2-Z proximity sensor.

The Omron needs the temperature to be stable(no matter how high), as it doesn't have compensation resistor inside like the Super Pinda.

I do not see any difference in first layer consistency, but i follow the basic rule to heat-soak the printer for 30 min prior to first calibration or Z-offset setting due to thermal expansion, of course this is only my experience with Voron as i just finished my 1st V2.4/300, and lets see the difference...

One good thing i did with the Switchwire, is to re-print the X and Z motor supports with different design, as i noticed that the original is wobbly and give me inconsistent layers (INCLUDING THE BED MESH) no matter the belt tension or temperature. i so printed the all gantry with enhanced pulley supports, problem sorted!

it doesn't allow me to upload all the files, but i will attach the first more important if you wish to give them a try.

hope that help.

x_motor_mount_a_x1 (1).stl x_motor_mount_b_x1 (1).stl z_motor_mount_a_x1 (1).stl z_motor_mount_b_x1 (1).stl

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So this is my Switchwire... It not the first printer I've built, it's the third one. All of the parts were printed on my Voron 2.4 using Prusament Galaxy Black ASA and the blue parts are FilamentOne ASA. The kit was from Formbot3D. I'm using a Klicky probe currently and will probably convert to a PCB Klicky soon, I have everything ready to install. The toolhead is a Stealthburner with CW2 extruder and Dragon HF hotened. I'm using the 2 pc. Hartk PCB with a Blurolls harness I picked up on Aliexpress.

I've had my share of little issues getting this printer running and printing as nice as my 2.4 and RatRig V-Minion. The biggest issue I've had is Z axis layer quality. It's just rough and the comparison photo below is an example. I printed all three of the cubes at the same time to demo my printers for a friend that stopped by. All of the cubes are 20mm XYZ cubes that are internal to SuperSlicer which is the slicer I use. From left to right the printers are RatRig V-Minion, Switchwire, Voron 2.4 300^3 All materials are PLA.

176113838_SW-20-PrintComparison.thumb.jpg.c6b71395839768590f16073ff689bd0a.jpg

I've had my share of failures getting to this point as well. Y axis layer shifting most notably. I corrected that issue already by adjusting belt tension (with tensioning tool) and also bumped up the stepper motor current from .5 -> .8 RMS (it's a 1 amp RMS motor so I'm running at 80%. Lastly, I'm not having any other issues apart from layers that look like poorly stacked flapjacks. My next thing to try is reducing the extrusion multiplier in SS. Maybe my hotend and extruder are more efficient than I think and I'm over extruding, I like to dial in my printers to run with a multiplier of 1.0 if possible.

Here's the printer.

SW-13-Completed.thumb.jpg.b3058f90aca0a0d026d7cbcb28755cc0.jpg

446593705_SW-12-WiringComplete.thumb.jpg.ae64838861dd2babba9d89c18b6631c6.jpg

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It looks like over-extrusion and undercooling. 

probably your thermistor is reading low.

Try to balance out your temperatures with an external 1.5mm thermocouple inside the throat. (something like this)

image.thumb.png.0b310307f5048d379b82c68e4ed3f186.png

Inserted from the top at running temperatures and see what you find and compare it to the printer you like the results.

 

If you are over melting, indeed you will have over extrusion and undercooling problems.

Try that before fiddling anymore with the motion system as I´m not convinced this is the problem.

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Well done with the building!!

I agree with running at 1.0 multiplier, is how i run with my printers.

It doesn't look like over extrusion, looks like misalignment of layers and over-temperature for the grey cube, is that PLA?

These are my tests in PLA(orange) and ABS( black), plus the Stealth hotend support on my Switch, is not perfect but getting there.

Are you using Pressure advance? 

 

cube-1.jpg

cube-2.jpg

cube-3.jpg

Stealthburner-1.jpg

Stealthburner-2.jpg

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25 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

The external thermocouple is a good idea. I'll have to pick one up. In the mean time I'll play around with extrusion multiplier and temps in SS. I'll run a couple test prints and post them up.

I tried SS, i couldn't get it right for me to work, so i'm running on Prusa slicer, it should be the same, but is not.

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Looks good @Manny. If I can get to where you're at I'd be happy. 

BTW... If I use the raw pictures from my phone (Galaxy S21 Ultra) they come out rotated. If I open them in Paint and do a save-as and give them a name... they appear in the correct orientation.

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8 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

I'm running standard .4 pressure advance. But all pressure advance is doing is throttling the extruder right before a corner to prevent over extrusion. It doesn't affect the quality of extrusion in between corners.

In my case, when i had my pressure wrongly set up, it was affecting the all printing, it all depend on how efficient is your extruder, and i belive it is.

i'm running on 0.017, if i put 0.4 as you have, i'll not be able to print at all, just blobs and bubbles.

That's one of my first attempt to set up my PA, first layer, 0.2 thickness.488500563_PA-otherside.jpg.733e65b4b3fe1bd59abef5c472682e64.jpgPA-1.jpg.f33ddf5bce03eebc27317acd5d4bceae.jpg

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21 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

Looks good @Manny. If I can get to where you're at I'd be happy. 

BTW... If I use the raw pictures from my phone (Galaxy S21 Ultra) they come out rotated. If I open them in Paint and do a save-as and give them a name... they appear in the correct orientation.

I have the exact same phone and don't have that issue. OK, I have the hacked GCam apps I use 99% of the time instead of the Samsung camera, but I haven't seen that issue except a few isolated glitch cases.

For extrusion multiplier and pressure advance I'm not too worried about what the number is. I run the calibration per the Ellis process and just set the values & move on. I don't care what the setting number is, I care what the output looks like.

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  • 2 weeks later...

SO... its been a while since I´ve used the switchwire, but today I´ve used it and produced a very neat print. (save the image and see it at full resolution, the scaling is doing weird things onto the picture). Edited as I can´t seem to uploade the pictures without scaling and is looking very weird.

Is your layer looking much worst than this (again, save the picture see it at full screen). Maybe my standards are much lower...

image.thumb.jpeg.1e104c34cdb64f71265f8482aea13210.jpeg

 

 

 

Find a zoom in of the pictures...

image.thumb.png.4cc69a9ed257693b81273f32e9d2320d.png

Edited by Maurici
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@Maurici I would say they are worse by about 10-20%. I would say they're currently acceptable but certainly not as good as an off the shelf bed slinger. Of course, one of my big problems is that 80 mm/s outer perimeter and 150 mm/s interior + infill, which is my normal print speed, might just be too fast for this printer. How fast did you print that part?

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19 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

How fast did you print that part?

80 across the board including solid infill but interior infill that is at 110. (however @0.3 layer line)

20 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

off the shelf bed slinger

I don´t think any off the shelf bed slinger will print half OK at those speeds... you can´t neutralise the weight of a 235mm heated bed back and forth. Maybe you are asking her too much?

The core skill of the switchwire other than the simplified and reduced footprint and frame is super quick Z hop for triky and towery-like parts, not really pure straightline speed.

If that is your thing, yes, the 2.4 does it all...

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@Maurici Yup, What I was thinking. Might just be pushing a bit too hard. I also have a .6 mm nozzle so I might try using that instead of the stock phaetus .4mm in it now. 

I've been thinking it would be cool to print some thick wall vase mode stuff with a 1mm nozzle so this printer might end up being a good choice to fill that role. Plus dramatically switching things up might reveal some hidden quirk that I've been missing. 

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