Nozzle Probing comes to BEACON

[NikosSprocket]

Has anyone tried a similar device BIGTREETECH Eddy?

Edited April 21 by NikosSprocket

[Dirk]

6 hours ago, NikosSprocket said:

anyone

I think there will be soon. It has been for sale since a day.

Check out the other thread we have been talking about these probes

[Ducky4546]

Ooo this is interesting! I have been using. A beacon on my franken Trident and so far it has been awesome. I have a spare and have been wanting to try it on my CR6 which uses strain gauges and tap

[GabrielZ]

8 hours ago, NikosSprocket said:

Has anyone tried a similar device BIGTREETECH Eddy?

No... but looks nice and cheap! But when factoring shipping (10 USD) it's the same price as the Cartographer and this last one supports both USB and CAN communication. With the BTT you are forced to select what version you want.

[NikosSprocket]

3 hours ago, GabrielZ said:

No... but looks nice and cheap! But when factoring shipping (10 USD) it's the same price as the Cartographer and this last one supports both USB and CAN communication. With the BTT you are forced to select what version you want.

That's a good point of the dual connection and not locked to one or the other. Anyway, after buying a few early factory releases, more likely beta versions, I try to wait for the product to hit the US market before purchasing anyway.

[NikosSprocket]

5 hours ago, Dirk said:

I think there will be soon. It has been for sale since a day.

Check out the other thread we have been talking about these probes

Thank you! I will.

On both my 2 Voron 2.4r2s I am still using Klicky probe and auto-Z, which was an upgrade from the original OMRON!

I have a very high success rate printing ABS, ASA, PLA etc. with the current configuration. Only, when I print Flex materials (95A, 85A etc.) it's when I have to babysit the 1st layer because some oozing will make inaccurate Z calibration. So, Beacon or Eddy sounds a promising upgrade.

[Dirk]

1 hour ago, NikosSprocket said:

I have a very high success rate

I think if your current configuration works, and you are happy with it, and you do not wish the probing/ meshing to go faster, why fix something that isn't broke

I still use my laptop I bought back in 2014. Still works perfectly okay for all my purposes  Only reason I am considering to get a new one is, that I have to wait so long to load a model in Fusion

Edited April 21 by Dirk
was a decade younger

[atrushing]

1 hour ago, Dirk said:

Only reason I am considering to get a new one is, that I have to wait so long to load a model in Fusion

Give Blender a try..  It loads my 500+MB Mini Stealth working file in one second on a Ryzen 5 3600 with a Radeon RX 6500 XT!

[Dirk]

54 minutes ago, atrushing said:

Ryzen 5 3600 with a Radeon RX 6500 XT!

Even though I love the abilities and its open source character of Blender, I found it quite annoying that I was not able to follow several tutorials I tried for modeling because I did not have a middle mouse button / wheel. This besides the fact that almost all CADsI run into use the F3D format which I have not been able to find a converter for.

I just checked the performance of your graphics card and mine, and it convinced me further to get a new pc and or laptop. With all this heavy graphics, it would be a good investment... It would mean I can not buy some spare parts for my printers for a while though

Thanks for the tip though

[atrushing]

33 minutes ago, Dirk said:

it convinced me further to get a new pc and or laptop. With all this heavy graphics, it would be a good investment..

A laptop will really be a bottleneck for CAD performance. ETA Prime has some great videos on different budget PC builds with new and used options. I can't help with the F3D files though.

[NikosSprocket]

6 hours ago, Dirk said:

I think if your current configuration works, and you are happy with it, and you do not wish the probing/ meshing to go faster, why fix something that isn't broke

I still use my laptop I bought back in 2014. Still works perfectly okay for all my purposes  Only reason I am considering to get a new one is, that I have to wait so long to load a model in Fusion

Dirk you are absolutely correct and unless I am seeking the latest and greatest, which with my FDM printing I just want to get nice prints, I am only updating software. Maybe when  the Klicky probe micro-switch will need servicing so maybe that will be the time to look after these devices.

[GabrielZ]

Dont fool yourself gentlemen, most likely the stock Voron kits already churn awesome prints at great speeds. This forum is all about going OVER THE TOP. 

[Penatr8tor]

18 hours ago, Dirk said:

With all this heavy graphics, it would be a good investment...

CAD / 3D modelling has always required powerful processing and graphics.

The good news is that Fusion and Blender run great with gaming graphics cards. Don't fall into the trap of paying extra for a Quadro graphics card. Also, if you're on a budget... a used PC might be the way to go. Here in the US we have a number of PC resellers that buy 1-2 year old PC's from companies that went belly up. I've seen dual Xeon systems with 64gig of RAM for as low as $500. You might be able to find something similar in Europe.

Here's my everyday work PC.

[atrushing]

4 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

Here's my everyday work PC.

I wonder if I could convince the wife that I need an uberwide monitor like yours . It has to weigh about a ton though!

This is my "office" PC.

[Pappy3831]

Yeah I’d like to have a monitor like that. But I’d have to move my printers to do it. Also found out they have a 93 or 97 inch oled tv. Thought about ordering it until I saw the 25k price tag. Figured I better wait for the price to drop before I order one to keep the peace. 

[Dirk]

8 hours ago, GabrielZ said:

awesome prints at great speeds.

We are not even talking about printing. A video like this (all your fault @mvdveer), on this forum, made me abandon my TAP. Here is one that shows a V2.4 with a Cartographer probe doing a custom QGL in 15 seconds in 3 rounds, and a 50x50 bed mesh in 20 seconds. After you have done this once, you will never want to tap or klicky again.

 

 

Edited April 22 by Dirk

[GabrielZ]

17 hours ago, atrushing said:

I wonder if I could convince the wife that I need an uberwide monitor like yours . It has to weigh about a ton though!

This is my "office" PC.

You may not have a humongous monitor but your station looks cozy as it gets!

[chrisalbertson]

On 4/17/2024 at 2:59 PM, VoronManiac said:

@Michel Welcome to the Forum!

The datasheet for the STM LIS2DW looks interesting.  Thanks for the heads up.  Digikey shows 16,792 in stock.  Cheap.  Min single tap trigger threshold is FS/32.

Max sample rate is 1.6kHz or 625usec.  It does not generate an event trigger until it passes the trigger threshold and then returns to baseline, so that is 2-3 samples min.  With printer.cfg:second_homing_speed 3mm/sec, that should put us in the 0.6um resolution range (single sample variation) similar to TAP (CAN bus latency variation aside which could be an over travel issue).

I've often wondered how long it takes Klipper to stop movement; or how much over travel it has once a probe event occurs.  What is max Z de-acceleration for probing?  For Voron TAP,there is beaucoup over travel so not an issue. Same with Klicky Probe.   In this case we have many msec of delay before movement is stopped and the probe is touching the bed surface which could be problematic.

Data sheet for this chip show it is only +85C which starts to be concern if it is mounted anywhere near a +120C bed.  (but so is the rest of the ABS head assembly).

One neat thing I guess you get with this chip is 3-axis end stop controls, and could replace sensorless homing for X and Y.

stopping motion should be different from measurement tolerance.   Yes, there is a delay from when the "tap" happens to when the command to stop the motors happens as the data has to go through the host Pi.   But measurement can have zero delays as the MCU in the print head can sample the system clock when the interrupt happens.  Then even if the data takes its time going over a couple of cables an accurate calculation can still be made.     This is the same way the motors stay in time, the commands are time-tagged.  Klipper MCUs always have clocks that stay in-sync with each other and the host

[D__J]

On 4/22/2024 at 6:36 PM, Dirk said:

We are not even talking about printing. A video like this (all your fault @mvdveer), on this forum, made me abandon my TAP. Here is one that shows a V2.4 with a Cartographer probe doing a custom QGL in 15 seconds in 3 rounds, and a 50x50 bed mesh in 20 seconds. After you have done this once, you will never want to tap or klicky again.

How do you make it go faster after the first round? I can't find that anywhere.

[wallaceprime]

On 4/19/2024 at 6:51 AM, Dirk said:

No.

As I understand, the tap causes the z motor to slip, like with sensorless homing. And this slipping causes a disturbance in the current. Which is picked up by Eddy.

The info says it only uses 20g force; would this be enough to cause z motor slippage?

I wondered if it relies on any machine's inherent flex. While it is not in contact, any z motor movement would cause a corresponding Beacon reading change. However, as soon as it contacts, then the nozzle/beacon/bed would move together without any Beacon reading change. I could be wrong, but the principle should work. I guess the fine discrimination of the Beacon allows it to detect contact with little force.

[Penatr8tor]

2 hours ago, wallaceprime said:

The info says it only uses 20g force; would this be enough to cause z motor slippage?

Probably not.

Just gotta love AI 

Here are some things that weigh 20 grams¹²:

• Duracell AA Alkaline Battery (19.5 grams)
• 4 U.S. Nickel (5 cents)
• 20 Standard Jumbo Paperclip
• Granulated Sugar (2 tablespoon)
• 2 Medium-sized Strawberry
• 4 Small Key (Typical House Key)
• 2 tablespoons of coffee beans
• A handful of almonds

 

[chrisalbertson]

What is actually being sensed?   How does an eddy curry sensor know the nozzle made contact with the bed?  I don't think. it is sensing contact.  I think it is sensing movement and then a sudden stop.

We know this is a very simple sensor, just a coil and a chip that measures and reports the coil's impedance at some fixed frequency.  My guess is that the software tracks the coil impedance over time as the nozzle gets closer to the bed and finds a slope.  When the nozzle hits, the motion stops and the rate of change of impedance would have to go to zero

When the impedance is constant, it must be that the relative distance from the nozzle to the bed is constant.

I can't see how an eddy current sensor can detect a motor stall

[chrisalbertson]

A laptop will really be a bottleneck for CAD performance. ETA Prime has some great videos on different budget PC builds with new and used options. I can't help with the F3D files though.

No, even a low-end Macbook is more than up to the task.  Fusion360 runs very well on Apple Silicon.  As a data point, the base M3 mini that sells for $599 is about the same as an Intel i7 with mid. range Nvidia GPU.  The same "mini" also can run Klipper about 10X faster than a Raspberry Pi.   I run Klipper on the Mac to test out new things on my desk or to flash a new MCU.

 

[claudermilk]

As a point of reference, I've run Fusion 360 on an absolutely ancient Dell Latitude E7440. It stressed the system--didn't like much else running on it, but it worked.

[kingstar]

12 hours ago, chrisalbertson said:

What is actually being sensed?   How does an eddy curry sensor know the nozzle made contact with the bed?  I don't think. it is sensing contact.  I think it is sensing movement and then a sudden stop.

We know this is a very simple sensor, just a coil and a chip that measures and reports the coil's impedance at some fixed frequency.  My guess is that the software tracks the coil impedance over time as the nozzle gets closer to the bed and finds a slope.  When the nozzle hits, the motion stops and the rate of change of impedance would have to go to zero

When the impedance is constant, it must be that the relative distance from the nozzle to the bed is constant.

I can't see how an eddy current sensor can detect a motor stall

Both the Beacon and Cartographer have accelerometers in them, so probably using those to detect when the nozzle physically touches the bed. I don't know if BTT's Eddy has an accelerometer in it or not. I would also think that things like toolhead CAN boards that have accelerometers might be able to do the same detection as well.