Nighthawk-SB toolboard by LDO Motors

[mvdveer]

Received the toolboard here in Ozzie from Fabreeko today (Pre-ordered as soon as it was available on the site) . As always, and as expected from LDO and Fabreeko - the packaging is top notch.

     

Opening up you will find the electronics, all the connectors and screws/bolts you will require for the build as well as the USB Umbilical and the power supply cables.

         

The electronics consists of three boards.

Similar to HartK (the benchmark in toolboards), SB2040, SB2209 and SB2240 (canbus toolheads), you have the Toolhead PCB and SB Fan adapter. In addition to those boards, the nighthawk has an additional USB adapter PCB.

Interestingly the Umbilical has 5 wires running from the PCB to the controller - one more than canbus. But like @ChicagoKeri, I am a fan of the canbus toolboards. However, as a comparison, I will install this on one of the printers to test performance.

Most likely some will say it will be an easier install. Time will tell, as I am pretty much now installing and flashing canbus boards without any effort or hassle. (Practice makes perfect the say ) 

BTW - Am halfway through the video of Nero3D installing this on his V2.4. Thanks for the link @YaaJ.

 

 

[Dirk]

Thanks for this overview. Gives me more of an idea what it is. I do not see any extra chips on the toolhead boards/adapter pcb. Meaning it is another concept than CAN. (No processing again at the toolhead)

As I have seen it, the current problem of the CAN boards for Voron is that there is no uniformity in hardware, so there are too many ways things go wrong during setup. Once you have that fixed, like you did and have become an expert (Also probably by just using one or two board and not all options available on the market), the next problem seems to be the firmware / software that runs them: Klipper - breaks with earlier minor updates.

I have not watched Nero's fiddling in a dark corner for 4 hours... Don't have the patience for it. But I am wondering if you need to install any extras in your Klipper, or does it work straight out of the box?

 

[mvdveer]

22 minutes ago, Dirk said:

I have not watched Nero's fiddling in a dark corner for 4 hours... Don't have the patience for it. But I am wondering if you need to install any extras in your Klipper, or does it work straight out of the box?

You would need to flash the board - process very similar to flashing the controller board. See here.

Than you need to map the pins - again similar to the canbus boards or HARTK boards.

Then there are some macros that need to be enabled/disabled  if you are using tacho fans or not.

[Dirk]

47 minutes ago, mvdveer said:

You would need to flash the board - process very similar to flashing the controller board. See here.

Thank you very much. So this whole setup is actually not that different from CAN bus setups. Actually same idea, only with a USB port. There is a chip on the board. RP2040. The same as on the CAN board of BTT. 

So like on the CAN boards, everything is transfered from the MCU of the Printer(Octopus/Spider/whatever), up to the MCU on the toolhead. 

Meaning we can expect the same problems we were having with CAN as with this system. And as @ChicagoKeri mentioned in her opinion article about CAN/USB without the reilability and speed of CAN.

Ok. Thank you very much. And good luck with the setup. I hope it will take you less than 4 hours. (Ever thought of making videos on Youtube?) 

[Penatr8tor]

Just wanted to mention that Nero 3D ran out of time yesterday and ended the stream before he had a chance to flash and test the unit. He's doing another stream today at 10am eastern time (unfortunately it's 2am down under).

[YaaJ]

Had a look to my dealer website (3DJake). Delivery estimated by Tuesday, 04 June, In stock from May 31, from their US website only

But the Switchwire RevC is available from european stock, and comes with the Nitehawk : https://www.3djake.fr/ldo-motors/kit-voron-switchwire-revc

Watching Nero...

[EDIT] 5-wire : have a look to the breakout board. It is not just a simple breakout : a few resistor, a transistor, and a regulator. 5V or 3V3 maybe is on the 5th wire ?

 

Edited February 7 by YaaJ

[Matrixnyc]

Following along

Have a 350 build in the works and deciding Can bus or Nighthawk 

[Penatr8tor]

@YaaJ It looks like Nero got his running pretty quickly. (Today's stream) He did use a Leviathan board on his implementation so it will be interesting to see how it works on an Octopus or other board. Nero also ran his cable thru the drag chains.

 

[YaaJ]

Yes.

And BTW, he said that we should not stick the foam to the frame. Never. Someone asked in the chat.

 

[Titus A Duxass]

14 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

@YaaJ It looks like Nero got his running pretty quickly. (Today's stream) He did use a Leviathan board on his implementation so it will be interesting to see how it works on an Octopus or other board. Nero also ran his cable thru the drag chains.

He did have problems following the instructions - some of it was down to his way of doing things and some of it was down to the instructions.

Is it easier than CANBus? Subjective your honour!

Initially with CANbus, I had major problems flashing the mainboard and toolhead but it was down to me not having a scooby about what I was doing. I have now got it down to a fine art (Ca. 15mins from start to finish).

Edited February 8 by Titus A Duxass

[mvdveer]

10 hours ago, Titus A Duxass said:

me not having a scooby about what I was doing

You have hit the nail on the head. New technology takes time to learn.  Flashing a canbus board to me now is relatively quick and easy. Will see how I go with this board. Sure I will run into some issues like Nero did - it is the unknown.  Nothing to do with canbus vs USB in my opinion - all to do about familiarity with the product.

[YaaJ]

The problem Nero had was with the fans voltage selection IIRC. Looking at the silkscreen, and using a multimeter in continuity mode, the answer is trivial... Such solder bridges are extremely common on chinese modules, and also come with the Kicad default library (2 points and 3 points, various footprints) : the user manual is the silkscreen.
Was more of a rant against the crappy LDO website than a real problem ! Who didn't rant against LDO documentaions !

[netzwerg]

On 2/7/2024 at 5:03 PM, YaaJ said:

Had a look to my dealer website (3DJake). Delivery estimated by Tuesday, 04 June, In stock from May 31, from their US website only

Levendigs in the Netherlands has them available now. Mine shipped today.
 

Edited February 9 by netzwerg

[YaaJ]

Thanks ! Bookmarked.
https://levendigs.com/collections/newest-products/products/pre-order-nitehawk-sb-toolboard-kit-ldo-motors

Maybe I'll get one. But there's a problem : I see no pinheader for a BLTouch or similar device (requires 2 pins + GND + 5V). I use a Microprobe. Not sure it is easily hackable.

The probe port is for a inductive probe according to the shematics. https://github.com/MotorDynamicsLab/Nitehawk-SB/blob/master/Hardware/Nitehawk-SB V1.4 Schematics.pdf ; the endstop port could be used, and the Probe port repurposed for the X endstop ? Maybe...

[netzwerg]

And here it is:

[netzwerg]

Installation was pretty straightforward. I just swapped out the nighthawk cable for the 14-wire bundle.

Fan PCB in the stealthburner front is exactly the same, so I just kept it installed.
PCB was preflashed with Klipper, so flashing to the latest version was very easy, without pressing buttons.

 

Unfortunately the chamber thermistor connector is different from the original LDO PCB, so I need to crimp on a new connector first.

Nighthawk PCB has an additional thermal sensor though, that might be used as a secondary case temperature sensor.

Edited February 14 by netzwerg

[mvdveer]

To those more knowledgeable than me. As I have done a Filametrix conversion with two sensors in the toolhead for ERCF, I need two extra pins to connect these two switches (Don't want to run wires to the electronics bay). The LDO_Nighthawk has a solderpad with a GND, 3,3V and two I do not know FS and SU) . Can these be used for Endstop pins (I know I've to map it accordingly).

 

If not, then   I can use the Y-Endstop pin and the Probe pin,  as I am going to use a Beacon Probe and don't need the probe port. (Searched high and low for meaning of FS and SU - gave up and decided to ask)

Thanks in advance for your help

[Dirk]

2 hours ago, mvdveer said:

FS and SU

I believe it has to do with USB. Now we are so used to CAN, we know a lot about it, but I believe this is a USB port. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_communications

The 3v3 should be 5, GND and two data lines Data + & Data - (like can hi and can low). I believe it is how USB communicates. FS might also be the v1.0 USB standard FULL SPEED. But I have no idea what SU stands for  SUperspeed?

Strange that there is no explanation in the LDO documentation. It will come once people start asking

No idea if you can connect anything to the USB data pins  

[Razor1666]

FS - Filament SensorNitehawk-SB V1.4 Schematics.pdf

Edited February 14 by Razor1666

[Buurman]

Strange request @mvdveer but could you post the SB parts that fit for these boards. Sorry didnt research yet, dont have a Nitehawk set yet, but REALLY curious about this one, especcially if a Beacon can be fit on the board itself (wired). 

But I must also say, TAP v2 is also fine, I like the normal offset function, cant really get used to this beacon_calibrate offset that beacon uses... and cant adjust it live..

[mvdveer]

6 hours ago, Razor1666 said:

FS - Filament SensorNitehawk-SB V1.4 Schematics.pdf

Had a look at the schematics but thought that it was part of the MCU - UART communications. (GPIO2 and GPIO 3)

The filament sensor is not listed as having a GPIO port, but it appears it is associated with GPIO12 and GPIO13 or the end stop ports.

GPIO16 and GPIO17 are fan controls. 

[mvdveer]

1 hour ago, Buurman said:

 but could you post the SB parts that fit for these boards.

The LDO board fits onto the CW2 standard. The filametrix mod files can be found here. There is also the Filametrix mod for Galileo v2.  To many variations to post all files. I used the dual filament sensors in the toolhead and both the above links has those in the repositories.

[PFarm]

Are you using Revo hot end on all of your ERCF/Tradrack setups? I searched for Phateus HF measurement for the Happy Hare setup but didn't find anything, no big deal I'll just have to measure them myself. Both the Trident and V2 have the same hot end.

 

They do have them for these hot ends:

 

 

 

[mvdveer]

3 hours ago, PFarm said:

Are you using Revo hot end on all of your ERCF/Tradrack setups?

Not on all, but most. I have 2x Phaetus dragon UHF hotends that I want to use and have printed and assembled those. Have not fitted it as yet to the machines. As I am going to service all the printers, I am waiting for when I have enough time available to do that and then fit and tune the two tradracks and the ERCF v2. This will be a while as I am in the process of finishing some educational content (emergency medicine practical skills) that will be delivered the first week of March to some junior doctors. After that, I should have a bit more time to play around with printers again. 

[Buurman]

10 hours ago, mvdveer said:

The LDO board fits onto the CW2 standard. The filametrix mod files can be found here. There is also the Filametrix mod for Galileo v2.  To many variations to post all files. I used the dual filament sensors in the toolhead and both the above links has those in the repositories.

Yeah, sorry, I meant links of course. I am using the Filametrix mod also, I think I remember that because of that my standard cable cover didnt fit anymore, since the SB gets a bit thicker? Never were able to find a good fitting Cable cover for the SB I think...