Voron 2.4 Clockwork 2 + E3D Revo extrusion problem

[arthurlvjunk]

Hi,

I have completed my Voron 2.4 but I'm struggling with an extrusion issue. Every time I try to print something, it works fine at the beginning but eventually it clogs and stops extruding or at least with minimal output. I can also hear the extruder clicking and skipping. Once I remove the filament mid print, clip the filament and put it back in the extruder, it seems to back to normal for a while.

I'm using an E3D Revo with a 0.4mm nozzle and I built a stealthburner with a Clockwork 2 extruder. To be totally honest I'm not sure to understand how the clockwork works exactly and what the thumbscrew pressure adjustment is supposed to do. Obviously I've tested numerous positions but it doesn't seem to be doing much.

You will find in attachment a couple of videos. The first one printing a 40 min 3D Benchy and the second one where I extrude filament at 5mm/s to clearly demonstrated the extruder clicking hopelessly. I've added the settings for the extruder as well.

Thanks a lot for your help guys !

Arthur

 

 

[extruder]

step_pin: PE2

dir_pin: PE3

enable_pin: !PD4

##  Update value below when you perform extruder calibration

##  If you ask for 100mm of filament, but in reality it is 98mm:

##  rotation_distance = <previous_rotation_distance> * <actual_extrude_distance> / 100

##  22.6789511 is a good starting point

rotation_distance: 22.6789511   #Bondtech 5mm Drive Gears

##  Update Gear Ratio depending on your Extruder Type

##  Use 50:17 for Afterburner/Clockwork (BMG Gear Ratio)

##  Use 80:20 for M4, M3.1

gear_ratio: 50:10               #BMG Gear Ratio

microsteps: 16

full_steps_per_rotation: 200    #200 for 1.8 degree, 400 for 0.9 degree

nozzle_diameter: 0.400

filament_diameter: 1.75

heater_pin: PA2

##  Validate the following thermistor type to make sure it is correct

sensor_type: Generic 3950 ##ATC Semitec 104NT-4-R025H42G

##   "EPCOS 100K B57560G104F"

##   "ATC Semitec 104GT-2"

##   "NTC 100K beta 3950"

##   "Honeywell 100K 135-104LAG-J01"

##   "NTC 100K MGB18-104F39050L32" (Keenovo Heater Pad)

##   "AD595"

##   "PT100 INA826"

sensor_pin: PF4

min_temp: 10

max_temp: 270

max_power: 1.0

min_extrude_temp: 170

#control = pid

#pid_kp = 26.213

#pid_ki = 1.304

#pid_kd = 131.721

##  Try to keep pressure_advance below 1.0

pressure_advance: 0.05  

 

##  Default is 0.040, leave stock

pressure_advance_smooth_time: 0.040

 

[alexbalestrin]

Hello Arthur. I also had a lot of problems with this hotend until I managed to adjust it correctly. This E3D Revo doesn't support much flow, but try reducing retraction and increasing the motor amperage a little. Also try to correctly calibrate pressure_advanced, it improved a lot for me.

[alexbalestrin]

I managed to print one of these 3D Benchy in 28 minutes

[claudermilk]

What voltag eare you sending to the motor? That tripped me up at first.

[arthurlvjunk]

Hi, thanks a lot for your responses, this has been very helpful.
I switched from Cura to SuperSlicer to get a better default profile and I raised the motor current from 0.5 to 0.75 and that helped a lot and I'm getting a somewhat consistent extrusion rate.

However, the printing quality is still horrendous (see images in attachment printed with the default profile in PLA). I will try pressure advance this weekend, but I doubt this could solve this issue. I also had to reduce the travel speed from 300mm/s to 150mm/s because I get a lot of resonance from the machine at this speed.

Any Idea where this could come from ? 

Thanks a lot for your help

[arthurlvjunk]

I've been trying to fix this stupid printer for about a year now.

Trying to fix the extrusion problem this morning, this fu**** printer decided to crash on the bed for no apparent reason (using the same gcode as I use before). It simply bent the heatbreak of my revo at 45 degrees.

That does it! I'm done here! this printer is going where it belongs : IN THE TRASH!

To anyone who is considering building a voron : don't bother with this piece of crap, you will just waist your time and a shit load of money, just like I did

I'm in Paris, France if someone wants some spare parts at a discount, PM me, but you've been warned

So long

[claudermilk]

Sorry you're having trouble. Have you hit up the Voron forum or Discord? There's tons of very knowledgeable folks there that can help.

I'm not sure what could be causing the issue you pictured. If it were my printer I'd start by checking all the bolts and belts, then re-visit the Ellis tuning guide.

[mvdveer]

20 hours ago, arthurlvjunk said:

I've been trying to fix this stupid printer for about a year now.

Building a Voron is both frustrating but also very rewarding. But sooo much can go wrong in the build that affects the outcome

1. Frame: This is the foundation of a good printing Voron. Needs to be solid and square. Even being out a millimetre or two - it will affect print quality (I know from experiencing this myself)

2. Printed parts - Needs to be dimensionally correct, not warped or show signs of layer separation. Beware not to crack a part when assembling the printer - this will affect its function.

3. Gantry - Needs to be 100% racked and tightened. Once the gantry is racked ensure it stays that way after tightening the belts.

4a. Good quality Gates 2 belts that are tensioned properly without affecting the racking of the gantry. Start with equal belt lengths and tighten opposition belts in sequence. (upper left, lower left, upper left, lower left, etc in small increments - two to three belt teeth at a time) 

4b. Make sure the belt path is unhindered and when moving the X and Y-axis, there are NO rubbing sounds or twisted belts. They need to run parallel to each other

5. Linear rails that have been soaked in alcohol to remove all the packing grease and then lubricated without dislodging the ball bearings. They can get lodged between the bearing holder and the carriage and cause major issues (Again experiencing this myself, is how I know)

6. Bolts and Nuts - Tighten and when you think they are tight enough - go back the following day an re-tighten them again - you will be surprised how much play you will find in the bolts.

7. Grub screws - Even though we are warned in the manual to ensure they are tight and have locktite applied - it is a step easily missed. Even slipping slightly can cause major printing flaws.

8. Good quality aluminium build plate - although this can be compensated for with QGL, Z-Tilt or bed mesh to a degree

 

It has been a year you have struggled. Why not take the printer apart (or parts of it)  and start again - may be a very rewarding experience. 

[arthurlvjunk]

Hi,

Thank you for spending the time to respond but what you describe is precisely my point: this printed is really overly and badly designed. You can achieve precision and reliability in a design whilst providing a minimum of tolerances in building it.

I chose this printer back then because I needed a large and fast 3d printer to prototype. At that time it was probably the only design that fit the bill (with the rat rig maybe). I had a lot of fun building it, I admit, but let's face it, vorons are impractical and expensive, there are now other offerings on the market that will do much better for less money (from bambu labs and creality to state the obvious)

I did pretty much everything that you've listed, viewed hundreds of videos / tutorials / forum threads to try to fix it and rebuilt a couple of times parts of the printer (mainly the gantry and the extruder)

Maybe I was naive but I thought these printer could actually PRINT something but it fills like it is more a project for the people who love fine tuning their printer until the end of times and who won't print anything else than a mountain on benchys. 

Anyways, I've dismantled the printer and it is now in the trash. This is sad but I won't invest anymore time or money. I need a printer that actually works.

Thanks a lot for trying to help

[EliasonRobert]

On 10/10/2023 at 3:29 PM, claudermilk said:

What voltag eare you sending to the motor? That tripped me up at first.

I guess you mean amperage?

Anyhow, I have a similar question. Got the LDO-36STH20-1004AHG from lab4450 and used the recommended setting of 0.45 for run_current. It feeds and retracts, but won't push any filament through the nozzle. I can do it manually, so the Revo is hot enough at least. The drivers are TMC2209.

Should I push the current a bit perhaps? It's rated for up to 1.0A, that should allow a max current of 0.7A according to the docs, correct?

Config below:

[extruder]
step_pin: PE2
dir_pin: !PE3
enable_pin: !PD4
##  Update value below when you perform extruder calibration
##  If you ask for 100mm of filament, but in reality it is 98mm:
##  rotation_distance = <previous_rotation_distance> * <actual_extrude_distance> / 100
##  22.6789511 is a good starting point
rotation_distance: 21.99858257   #Bondtech 5mm Drive Gears
##  Update Gear Ratio depending on your Extruder Type
##  Use 50:10 for Stealthburner/Clockwork 2
##  Use 50:17 for Afterburner/Clockwork (BMG Gear Ratio)
##  Use 80:20 for M4, M3.1
gear_ratio: 50:10
microsteps: 32
full_steps_per_rotation: 200    #200 for 1.8 degree, 400 for 0.9 degree
nozzle_diameter: 0.400
filament_diameter: 1.75
heater_pin: PA2
## Check what thermistor type you have. See https://www.klipper3d.org/Config_Reference.html#common-thermistors for common thermistor types.
## Use "Generic 3950" for NTC 100k 3950 thermistors
sensor_type: ATC Semitec 104NT-4-R025H42G
sensor_pin: PF4
min_temp: 10
max_temp: 300
max_power: 1.0
min_extrude_temp: 170
#control = pid
#pid_kp = 26.213
#pid_ki = 1.304
#pid_kd = 131.721
##  Try to keep pressure_advance below 1.0
pressure_advance: 0.038
##  Default is 0.040, leave stock
#pressure_advance_smooth_time: 0.040

##  E0 on MOTOR6
##  Make sure to update below for your relevant driver (2208 or 2209)
[tmc2209 extruder]
uart_pin: PE1
interpolate: false
run_current: 0.45	# for LDO-36STH20-1004AHG
sense_resistor: 0.110
stealthchop_threshold: 0

 

[claudermilk]

Yes, amperage (nee run_current). I started at the recommended where you are. I ended up at 0.6 and it's been running without issue since then. Bump yours up and see if it helps.

[EliasonRobert]

3 hours ago, claudermilk said:

Yes, amperage (nee run_current). I started at the recommended where you are. I ended up at 0.6 and it's been running without issue since then. Bump yours up and see if it helps.

Thanks!

I also found in Ellis' print tuning guide a recommendation of 0.65A for Stealthburner/CW and Revo. Going to give it a shot later

[hooper313]

On 10/10/2023 at 6:51 AM, alexbalestrin said:

Hello Arthur. I also had a lot of problems with this hotend until I managed to adjust it correctly. This E3D Revo doesn't support much flow, but try reducing retraction and increasing the motor amperage a little. Also try to correctly calibrate pressure_advanced, it improved a lot for me.

What would you recommend reducing retraction to for a Revo? I'm struggling with a similar extrusion problem and using the following retraction settings based of my working DragonFly BMS in another printer.

Retraction length: .75mm

Retraction Speed: 50mm/s Deretraction: 30mm/s

[5twenty]

Change to a different hotend. I had nothing but issues on my revo. maybe they fixed it since then, but I wont but anymore and actively recommend against due to shoddy craftsmanship and horrible predictions. I had nothing but clogs due to the horrible thermistor they cheaped out on and several nozzle replacements. Not worth it when the cheap knockoff v6 is way better. Not to mention better alternatives that don’t cost as much and have parts for them right now. And actual facts.