Rails like that usable or not?

[Merlin64]

Good Afternoon,

 

today I received the rails for my planned Trident. I have there no good impression. No even run and it goes very heavy. But I don't have anything to compare them to, so I want to ask.

I do not have so much imagination to imagine that after cleaning and re-greasing it could be fine 

 Here is a movie with sound:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v4xyN3ZtY7yYlNyM8uDSs59fi3zYYGJu/view?usp=share_link

What is the opinion about it?

Merlin

[smirk]

54 minutes ago, Merlin64 said:

I do not have so much imagination to imagine that after cleaning and re-greasing it could be fine 

From my own experience, I would agree with you. A bad rail is a bad rail and cannot effectively be salvaged with cleaning and grease.

However, it's hard say if the rail in your video is "bad". (Might be my speakears) but the sound is not horrendous. Again, in my experience linear rails aren't always silent.

The best way to judge the rail is really by feel. When you slide it up and down the rail does it feel the same? Are there any points where it feels like it is sticking or the amount of force needed to move the carriage changes? Changes would indicate a bad rail.

Depending on the pre-load on the rail/carriage it might not legitimately move with gravity and might feel like it needs more "force" than you might expect. However, bad rails just bind up and if they move at all require ridiculous amounts of force.

I think the biggest tell is feel - does it feel "smooth" and above all consistently across the entire length of the rail

 

[Merlin64]

 

Hello Smirk,

thank you for taking the time to reply in detail. Your arguments are very plausible and helpful.

Back from work i cleaned all rails, assembled all carriages and checked all to compare and get a feeling for this.

Finally, I made a simple test, because I did not want to act only subjectively (see attachment).

The needed additional weight to move the carrier vertical was beetween 0 and +140 gramms.

Only two out of 6 rails felt consistent over 95% of the length of the rails (the far ends are probably not that important).

So i should see what i will do. Until now It looks like there are just cheap rails or hiwin rails for about four times the price (~ 600EUR).

At least now I am more rich in experience .

Thank you and good nigth.

Merlin

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Merlin64

[smirk]

Hi Merlin

That is an interesting testing contraption.

I would say that ideally you would want the rail smooth across the entire length. Whilst you might not be printing to the utter extremes of the travel, that is where the end-switches are so you would not want anything interfering with that.

The Voron Design team's documentation does provide some help. In the Voron sourcing guide they suggest various suppliers of rails (along with all other components).These recommendations are based on practical feedback from themselves and others. I see for the Trident sourcing guide Fermio Labs are on the recommended list of suppliers and I believe they are based in Germany. The Voron suggestions are a lot more reasonably than full blown Hiwin or Misumi rails.

The Voron Design documentation might also provide advice on selecting which rails to use for which axis depending on their quality.

[claudermilk]

Where were the rails sourced from? 

Short of Hiwin, there are other options. Fermio is in Germany and from the impression I've gotten are supposed to be good parts. Fareeko has their premium-but-not-Hiwin Honeybadger rails, LDO has rails. On AliExpress, CNA Store rails are budget ones that are recommended; these are the ones I went with (no LDO or Fabreeko yet) and they have been working well.

[Merlin64]

20 hours ago, smirk said:

In the Voron sourcing guide they suggest various suppliers of rails (along with all other components). These recommendations are based on practical feedback from themselves and others. I see for the Trident sourcing guide Fermio Labs are on the recommended list of suppliers and I believe they are based in Germany.

Hi smirk, thank you for your hints. I already visit the Fermio-Labs online-shop, but from my first impressions i was not sure this shop fits for me. But looks like they have a good reputation, maybe i will give them a try.

And i will take a look at the sourcing guide again.

Especially with the more expensive parts that are known for possible quality problems, I would at least try to order from not too small German companies with a good reputation. That way I can send it back if I'm not satisfied.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Merlin64

[smirk]

1 hour ago, Merlin64 said:

I would at least try to order from not too small German companies with a good reputation. That way I can send it back if I'm not satisfied.

A very sensible approach.

[Merlin64]

5 hours ago, claudermilk said:

Where were the rails sourced from? 

Hi Claudermilk,

its from a German mechatronics company. They sell good products (unfortunately except my low priced rails).

I can't find something about Fareeko, maybe you have a link for me? BTW, do you know something about the manufacturer "cpc Europa"?

I noticed, usually rails and carrier for the vorons are sold already paired, i bought it separated. Now i think paired is the right way, because the probably selected to fit together.

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Merlin64

[smirk]

I've dealt with CPC Farnell (UK) and would rate them very highly. As far as I can tell CPC is the parent company as I can find CPC Europa stock on the Farnell website

 

[Merlin64]

So far, it sounds good smirk .

X-Y from CPC Europe and for Z maybe a little bit lower quality.

I am still not sure, what is the right payload.

Some people argue, a "very low" payload fits best to a tooth belt drive. For me its sounds plausible.

The most offers i find, have one level stronger = "low" payload. I think it should be ok too.

[Merlin64]

56 minutes ago, smirk said:

A very sensible approach.

I want to break the "sometimes we lose, sometimes the others win" rule. 

[claudermilk]

19 hours ago, Merlin64 said:

Hi Claudermilk,

its from a German mechatronics company. They sell good products (unfortunately except my low priced rails).

I can't find something about Fareeko, maybe you have a link for me? BTW, do you know something about the manufacturer "cpc Europa"?

I noticed, usually rails and carrier for the vorons are sold already paired, i bought it separated. Now i think paired is the right way, because the probably selected to fit together.

Fabreeko, which is in the US so I'm not sure how easy it would be for you to source from them. It sounds like you are in Germany?

I will defer to @smirk on CPC information, I haven't heard of them before.

[Merlin64]

4 hours ago, claudermilk said:

It sounds like you are in Germany?

Yes. The links above are already very helpful. Now i will found something.

Because the LDO tridents have a good reputation, i think the rails from them should be good too.

[Merlin64]

Hi,

 

now I got a set of LDO rails, especially for the Voron Trident.

And what should i say, its a difference like night and day. Now I can clearly answer my question above with "No". But the LDO-Rails feel "smooth" consistently across the entire length of the rail.

Surprisingly, they are hard to find in Germany.  There are many things out of stock. So iI ordered in Tallinn, Estland.
 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Merlin64