ABS layer adhesion

[TitusADuxass]

What is the main reason for bad layer adhesion with ABS.

My printers used to print lovely with ABS, now I have really bad layer adhesion.

I've tried:

Turning the print temp up and down.

Printing slower, printing faster.

Printing with more cooling, less cooling.

The only thing that I haven't done is dried the filament, is this likely to be the culprit?

 

[mvdveer]

7 hours ago, TitusADuxass said:

What is the main reason for bad layer adhesion with ABS.

My printers used to print lovely with ABS, now I have really bad layer adhesion.

I've tried:

Turning the print temp up and down.

Printing slower, printing faster.

Printing with more cooling, less cooling.

The only thing that I haven't done is dried the filament, is this likely to be the culprit?

Most likely Yes

1. Wet filament (moisture)

2. Too much cooling (need low cooling 20% or less)

3. Faulty spool (dud roll of filament) 

4. Print temperature (Nozzle 260, Bed 110)

[TitusADuxass]

10 hours ago, mvdveer said:

Most likely Yes

1. Wet filament (moisture)

2. Too much cooling (need low cooling 20% or less)

3. Faulty spool (dud roll of filament) 

4. Print temperature (Nozzle 260, Bed 110)

I print with 265 nozzle & 105 bed.

I've had the filament spools in the oven at 50c for 6 hours, so we'll see if there's an improvement.

[claudermilk]

Dumb question: have you cleaned the bed?

I run 250/110 and no cooling on the first layer, ramping up over the next 3.

[TitusADuxass]

17 hours ago, claudermilk said:

Dumb question: have you cleaned the bed?

I run 250/110 and no cooling on the first layer, ramping up over the next 3.

Yes, cleaned and Nano Polymer applied.

I also have no cooling for the first 3 layers, they are never a problem.

[Savate]

4 hours ago, TitusADuxass said:

Yes, cleaned and Nano Polymer applied.

no need of anything on a good pei sheet.

* print temperature : 255°/110° (ldo abs and extrudr asa)
* chamber temp : 45° minimum when print starts (at the end of the print T° is about 60° )
* if chamber is hot enough, no cooling for the 4 first layers, then 25% to 45% (depending on the toolhead used)
* pei whashed with hot water and dishwashing liquid (every time i put my dirty fingers on pei surface)
* z offset perfectly tuned

and all pieces should stay on pei without warping .

[Penatr8tor]

For additional context...

I'm printing ABS/ASA primarily on my VzBot. 240/110 with a minimum 20-minute soak to get the chamber around 40c ish.

I dry the sh!t out of my filament these days and am getting some of the strongest, best prints to date.

@TitusADuxass, I think drying or lack thereof is the underlying issue. It seems like it always is. Also, I used to print with ASA exclusively but now I have moved over to ABS because it just prints better for me.

[Razor1666]

5 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

I used to print with ASA exclusively but now I have moved over to ABS because it just prints better for me.

I also found the same. ABS gives me great prints.....ASA so-so..  I'm sticking with ABS as well

[mvdveer]

6 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

ABS because it just prints better for me.

ditto

[TitusADuxass]

17 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

For additional context...

I'm printing ABS/ASA primarily on my VzBot. 240/110 with a minimum 20-minute soak to get the chamber around 40c ish.

I dry the sh!t out of my filament these days and am getting some of the strongest, best prints to date.

@TitusADuxass, I think drying or lack thereof is the underlying issue. It seems like it always is. Also, I used to print with ASA exclusively but now I have moved over to ABS because it just prints better for me.

Judging by the responses I think you're correct.

I'm now planning a actively heated filament cupboard using a very low wattage greenhouse heater and small controller that I have left over from my real ale brewing days.

[Penatr8tor]

I didn't mention this before... I run 10c cooler on my nozzle regardless of material because I use a Diamondback nozzle on everything. Running 250c for ABS with brass or steel, etc. would be the correct temp for those nozzles, give or take a few degrees to account for preference.

[TitusADuxass]

15 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

I didn't mention this before... I run 10c cooler on my nozzle regardless of material because I use a Diamondback nozzle on everything. Running 250c for ABS with brass or steel, etc. would be the correct temp for those nozzles, give or take a few degrees to account for preference.

Interesting,  my problems started appearing after I changed to a hardened steel nozzle.

[Penatr8tor]

9 hours ago, TitusADuxass said:

Interesting,  my problems started appearing after I changed to a hardened steel nozzle.

Thermal conductivity of the diamond tip is off the chart compared to the other materials. Steel being ~10% of diamond and ~1/2 of brass.

It probably wouldn't hurt to bump up the temp 5 degrees to compensate.

[TitusADuxass]

Drying the filament in my Sunlu has made a big difference.

[Penatr8tor]

5 hours ago, TitusADuxass said:

Drying the filament in my Sunlu has made a big difference.

That has been my experience... Drying makes a big difference... even for PLA and the "you don't need it" materials.

[3Dfps240]

I've had issues with ABS not sticking properly to PEI build plates, they have been properly cleaned both using warm water and dishwashing liquid followed up with 91-92% isopropanol wipe:

• Textured PEI, bed 110 degrees, nozzle first layer 270 degrees then 255-260, chamber 50+ degrees, cooling fans low at 15% - bad adhesion and warping occur
• Smooth PEI, bed 110 degrees, nozzle first layer 270 degrees then 255-260, chamber 50+ degrees, cooling fans low at 15% - bad adhesion and warping occur
• Smooth PEI ligthly grinded with 800 grit water sanding, bed 110 degrees, nozzle first layer 270 degrees then 255-260, chamber 50+ degrees, cooling fans low at 15% - sticks to build plate like superglue to my fingers.

Grinding my smooth PEI plate to a matte finish did the trick for me, I don't need to use any glue, it sticks really good. Maybe even too good.

And of course the filament spools have been dryed according vendor recommendations.

Edited March 13 by 3Dfps240

[NikosSprocket]

10 hours ago, 3Dfps240 said:

I've had issues with ABS not sticking properly to PEI build plates, they have been properly cleaned both using warm water and dishwashing liquid followed up with 91-92% isopropanol wipe:

• Textured PEI, bed 110 degrees, nozzle first layer 270 degrees then 255-260, chamber 50+ degrees, cooling fans low at 15% - bad adhesion and warping occur

 

For ABS & ASA Part Fan is 0% until layer 5. Encloser internal temperature 50 - 60 deg. C before start printing.

[Repman]

And to be sure, that the temperatures you adjust, are the correct ones at the machine, a PID autotune for the bed and the HE can be helpful.