X/Y moves make more sound than they should.... but found a unexpected solution.. (took only 20 hours or so)

[Buurman]

My fist build Voron 2.4 is my main printer for printing sets and other Voron 2.4 builds.

Yet, what I found out that somehow my newer printers are always WAY more quiet on XY moves with the same config (copy/paste) than my trusty first one...
It feels like it needs to work harder on a XY move, doesnt matter diagonal (I print 45 degrees by default) or horizontal/vertical.
It makes a sound like.. the rail is having too much fraction almost.. and motors need to work harder..

I blamed everything, so I started a mission to find the cause.. 

Changed run_currents - no change (maybe temperature) running on 1.0 now, but its also ok on 0.8.
Tried Stealthchop and run_current - but I rather not go there, and new sounds emerged on slow moves, so.. FIAL, not an option.
Changed motors (X/Y) - did not change anything

Yesterday I started to take it apart (second time to be honest) to find the cause... took the gantry apart, while NOT taking out the cables, it was a challenge, but I won.
I changed all the mounts with versions with PINS instead of bolts on the bearings, took out the toothed bearings and went for smooth ones.

I can advise them: https://github.com/VoronDesign/VoronUsers/tree/master/printer_mods/hartk1213/Voron2.4_Trident_Pins_Mod

After spending about 5/6 hours on this.. (yes... f*ck me.. hahaha!) all felt smooth without the belts, with belts no strange resistance (constant).

And also racked it in a very relaxing state, and made sure its square and everything... I do feel it was better now than before. (yes you make mistakes on your first Voron).

But.... NO change in sound!!! from now on... this is starting to drive me crazy... I am 100% sure Gantry is good, belts tension, smooth operation/movement... etc.

Ok.. today a new day... what can I try... 

I switched Stepper drivers with my other Voron - no change.

Then I thought, ok.. wiring somehow... my first Voron had a pre-build kit from onetwo whatever, UK based store, never again.. could have the same for half the price from Germany.

But... I used the basic wires (stll had it from the kit) and connected them from Octopus to motors, the OneTwo wires were crossed, so I had a exclamation (!) mark before my dir_pin in my printer.cfg to reverse the direction, so I took that out with the default wires, like I do on the Vorons I build with the basic wires.

And... Printer is WAY more quiet!! I cant believe this, at this point I am thinking.. the wiring is too thin or something, it cant be this ! exclamation mark.. right?

Well.. it is, I uncrossed the wires physically on the OneTwo wire kit, and ... Quiet!

 

changing direction (dir_pin: !) in printer.cfg is not without penalty it seems.... lesson learned, maybe it helps someone.

I will be changing wires instead of using ! the change_dir option, since, clearly it is not bulletproof.. somehow...

[mvdveer]

9 hours ago, Buurman said:

hanging direction (dir_pin: !) in printer.cfg is not without penalty it seems.... lesson learned, maybe it helps someone.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I think you just saved me a lot of work - have noticed my 2.4 runs near quiet whilst the Voron 0 is noisy on XY. And yes - the dir_pin is inverted in the V0 but not the 2.4. Will change the motor wires physically and see what happens. Thanks 

[smirk]

Really good investigtion @Buurman and as mvdveer points out definitely universally useful. Interesting to know why it happens, must be something to do with cross-talk/interference, but I'm not an electrical engineer or physist. I know they put "lots" of twists in the pairs for  comms cabling (I say "lots" there is a magic formula) to cut down on cross-talk, but sounds like you were having the opposite problem (twist = crosstalk). Hmmm.....perhaps not enough twists. Another plus point at least you proved that it wasn't purely down to overly expensive shoddy British workmanship. I would say "Hoorah! Buy British" but given the country is closing down for the Winter (and @mvdveer bought half of Scotland) it'll be amazing if anyone gets anything out of us. Actually the last thing I bought was from Amsterdam....but that probably won't get here because our lot are all on strike.....grumble...grumble....might as well just have thrown it into the North Sea......grumble....

[therm_virtual0y]

On 9/1/2022 at 9:06 AM, Buurman said:

My fist build Voron 2.4 is my main printer for printing sets and other Voron 2.4 builds.

Yet, what I found out that somehow my newer printers are always WAY more quiet on XY moves with the same config (copy/paste) than my trusty first one...
It feels like it needs to work harder on a XY move, doesnt matter diagonal (I print 45 degrees by default) or horizontal/vertical.
It makes a sound like.. the rail is having too much fraction almost.. and motors need to work harder..

I blamed everything, so I started a mission to find the cause.. 

Changed run_currents - no change (maybe temperature) running on 1.0 now, but its also ok on 0.8.
Tried Stealthchop and run_current - but I rather not go there, and new sounds emerged on slow moves, so.. FIAL, not an option.
Changed motors (X/Y) - did not change anything

Yesterday I started to take it apart (second time to be honest) to find the cause... took the gantry apart, while NOT taking out the cables, it was a challenge, but I won.
I changed all the mounts with versions with PINS instead of bolts on the bearings, took out the toothed bearings and went for smooth ones.

I can advise them: https://github.com/VoronDesign/VoronUsers/tree/master/printer_mods/hartk1213/Voron2.4_Trident_Pins_Mod

After spending about 5/6 hours on this.. (yes... f*ck me.. hahaha!) all felt smooth without the belts, with belts no strange resistance (constant).

And also racked it in a very relaxing state, and made sure its square and everything... I do feel it was better now than before. (yes you make mistakes on your first Voron).

But.... NO change in sound!!! from now on... this is starting to drive me crazy... I am 100% sure Gantry is good, belts tension, smooth operation/movement... etc.

Ok.. today a new day... what can I try... 

I switched Stepper drivers with my other Voron - no change.

Then I thought, ok.. wiring somehow... my first Voron had a pre-build kit from onetwo whatever, UK based store, never again.. could have the same for half the price from Germany.

But... I used the basic wires (stll had it from the kit) and connected them from Octopus to motors, the OneTwo wires were crossed, so I had a exclamation (!) mark before my dir_pin in my printer.cfg to reverse the direction, so I took that out with the default wires, like I do on the Vorons I build with the basic wires.

And... Printer is WAY more quiet!! I cant believe this, at this point I am thinking.. the wiring is too thin or something, it cant be this ! exclamation mark.. right?

Well.. it is, I uncrossed the wires physically on the OneTwo wire kit, and ... Quiet!

changing direction (dir_pin: !) in printer.cfg is not without penalty it seems.... lesson learned, maybe it helps someone.

I will be changing wires instead of using ! the change_dir option, since, clearly it is not bulletproof.. somehow...

My 2.4 printer is doing the same thing.  I had to change the DIR pin (!) in config to get all my motions working, right.  Now if I run faster than 1000 XL it makes this horrible grinding sound.  It’s better with silentchop disabled but still..  what pins did you change on the TMC2209 pinout to fix?  Flip only A coil red and blue for both X and Y?

Edited June 23, 2023 by therm_virtual0y