Squish or Flow?

[mvdveer]

Hi there, need some help. Pulling my hair out trying to solve this. Since upgrading the machine to the filametrix toolhead with CW2 and cartographer( Had CNC Tap prior), I am not getting this top layer dialed in. Arrrghhhhh!!!!!. As per my usual with each filament, followed the Ellis guide to the letter. Rotational distance dialed in perfectly. Thought I had first layer squish and EM dialed in.

• Machine: Voron2.4 r2 350mm
• Hotend: Revo Voron - standard flow nozzle (Brass)
• CW2 extruder (Filametrix with dual sensors)
• Filament : Spectrum 275 ASA Deep Black
• Orca slicer: Ellis PIF profile (First layer 50mm/s, 120mm/s outer walls, 100mm/s top layer. 4 Walls, 4 Bottom, 5 Top)
• Heatbed 80 (as per spectrum recommendations)
• Hotend: 240 (as per Spectrum recommendations)

Have tried EM from .923 (as per Ellis Tuning) up to .98 - no significant difference. Do I go higher or is sqiush? Or something else? Looks like the nozzle is digging into the top layer. ? Infill pattern? Or is it just this roll of filament?

Prior to upgrades - PIF quality prints - now - a dog's breakfast!

I know I am overthinking it with blinkers on, therefor need your help.  Thank you knowledgeable folk of the forum

 

[Dirk]

11 minutes ago, mvdveer said:

Hi there, need some help. Pulling my hair out trying to solve this. Since upgrading the machine to the filametrix toolhead with CW2 and cartographer( Had CNC Tap prior), I am not getting this top layer dialed in. Arrrghhhhh!!!!!. As per my usual with each filament, followed the Ellis guide to the letter. Rotational distance dialed in perfectly. Thought I had first layer squish and EM dialed in.

• Machine: Voron2.4 r2 350mm
• Hotend: Revo Voron - standard flow nozzle (Brass)
• CW2 extruder (Filametrix with dual sensors)
• Filament : Spectrum 275 ASA Deep Black
• Orca slicer: Ellis PIF profile (First layer 50mm/s, 120mm/s outer walls, 100mm/s top layer. 4 Walls, 4 Bottom, 5 Top)
• Heatbed 80 (as per spectrum recommendations)
• Hotend: 240 (as per Spectrum recommendations)

Have tried EM from .923 (as per Ellis Tuning) up to .98 - no significant difference. Do I go higher or is sqiush? Or something else? Looks like the nozzle is digging into the top layer. ? Infill pattern? Or is it just this roll of filament?

Prior to upgrades - PIF quality prints - now - a dog's breakfast!

I know I am overthinking it with blinkers on, therefor need your help.  Thank you knowledgeable folk of the forum

I think I am simple enough to give an answer to this one

your nozzle temp is too low for Asa (even though the manufacturer said so). 

the digging in you see is blobs on the nozzle tip that dig in the surface.

it's either the temperature or your blower.

I would do a temp tower or similar.

And a third, I have this same on top layers with abs, if I print with 400mm/s

[PFarm]

Doesn't the LDO kit come with aluminum X/Y plates? 

 

 

Edited June 3 by PFarm

[mvdveer]

12 minutes ago, Dirk said:

I think I am simple enough to give an answer to this one

Contrary - I think you are "heel slim en intelligent"

14 minutes ago, Dirk said:

it's either the temperature or your blower.

Cooling at 20%, Max 60%

 

15 minutes ago, Dirk said:

I would do a temp tower or similar.

Done that as part of the filament tuning - 240 seemed where it ended at, but I am going to follow you suggestion and increase it

 

16 minutes ago, Dirk said:

And a third, I have this same on top layers with abs, if I print with 400mm/s

That's the VZBot and no such problems there. This is on the V2.4r2 at 120mm/s

Thanks for the suggestions

[mvdveer]

14 minutes ago, PFarm said:

Doesn't the LDO kit come with aluminum X/Y plates? 

They do, but when I get printing, I get printing . Never even thought about that - thanks @PFarm. I must be getting old and senile !

Found it:

Thanks for the reminder - but still need to get this top layer sorted.

[Dirk]

12 minutes ago, mvdveer said:

That's the VZBot

No. My 2.4. this top layer was printed with 400mm/s

At some places it looks like yours.

But when I zoom in at and around the holes, there is a tiny bit of perimeter separation.

And Ellis also has a solution for that problem.

But he suggests slowing down small perimeter speed and increasing hotend temperature.

 

Edited June 3 by Dirk
Ellis link

[mvdveer]

3 minutes ago, Dirk said:

And Ellis also has a solution for that problem.

Saw that when I went through the guide - did not think it was that, but I asked for help and will implement all suggestions - thanks!

[Dirk]

Just now, mvdveer said:

will implement all suggestions

Please do not do it for me.

Do it so you can sleep well in a bit (I think that is how you work).

These are what I mean in your print, not in mine.

 

I think the temperature a bit higher (260) and the speed a bit lower (80) will solve your top layer problem. 

[mvdveer]

49 minutes ago, Dirk said:

Please do not do it for me.

Do it so you can sleep well in a bit (I think that is how you work).

No point in asking for help if you are going to ignore suggestions - appreciate all help and will try all suggestions. Doing it so i can get this dammmnn thing fixed You should know. Frieslander = STUBBORN. No arguments

 

49 minutes ago, Dirk said:

think the temperature a bit higher (260) and the speed a bit lower (80) will solve your top layer problem

Yep - will give it a go!

[mvdveer]

@Dirk Going to have a peaceful sleep now. Just sliced the same part hotend 260, top layer 80mm/s. Will update tomorrow with results. Thanks again

 

[Dirk]

Good night!

I do not believe you are going to sleep before the print is finished though

I wouldn't 

[mvdveer]

6 minutes ago, Dirk said:

I do not believe you are going to sleep before the print is finished though

Nah, not staying up another 3 hours - will have to wait till tomorrow

Welterusten

[mvdveer]

Tomorrow, tomorrow......

[claudermilk]

I second those observations. It looks like a bit more heat and a bit less speed on the top layer are needed. Those changes have fixed that very problem when I've run across it.

[mvdveer]

@Dirk and @claudermilk - you are both gentlemen and scholar. Spot on. Much better, not perfect yet. Will now again play around with squish and EM.

Thank you again.

[PFarm]

9 hours ago, mvdveer said:

May I ask which webcam is on this printer?

[Dirk]

37 minutes ago, mvdveer said:

not perfect yet

I'm glad it helped. It solved the perimeter separation, but not those stripes.

The stripes are not in the direction of the infill. So probably travel moves. Lift z?

And it also means the plastic hasn't dried by the time the move happens. Suggesting a bit more cooling would help.

Also in places where the infill has a short path, the lines melt with eachother, (right and left upper corner) suggesting either insufficient cooling time or a slightly too high EM.

Finally: ASA loves to be in a super hot chamber, even hotter than abs( I read) so that's a thing to consider. 

 

[mvdveer]

52 minutes ago, PFarm said:

May I ask which webcam is on this printer?

I have two - in the front left corner - a Raspi V2 cam and above the doors a cheap USB cam from Amazon. (Had a Logitech c92 there but the heat killed it)

[mvdveer]

36 minutes ago, Dirk said:

Also in places where the infill has a short path, the lines melt with eachother, (right and left upper corner) suggesting either insufficient cooling time or a slightly too high EM.

My thoughts exactly. Going to bump cooling up. EM is at 0.923. Might drop that down a bit