Voron Cascade CNC

[mvdveer]

A voron CNC machine in the making, due for release Nov/Dec 2024. But the price tag is ....... well, you decide US2500-US3000

MGN15 rails, Nema23 motors, 5160 drivers.

Following the Voron ethos - all parts readily available. Kits - no full kits as I understand but kits containing the aluminium parts.

Here is a video:

 

 

[Dirk]

I indeed saw it the day before. Was thinking about posting it here but didn't.

The only thing that I like about it is, that it is enclosed.

I do not like it because

1- it is very expensive: hobbyist ready made CNC machines much better designed than this you can get for less than half the price.

2- The Milo's toolhead only moves in the Z direction, which makes it very stable. This one moves the toolhead also in the Y direction, making it less sturdy.

Not an expert, but I will wait for it to get to version 6. Or just do Milo as soon as @PFarm shows his first cnc'ed parts.  

[claudermilk]

It certainly looks like an interesting addition to the field. It seems to me the cost difference starts with Cascade using ball screws instead of lead screws and having that polycarbonate enclosure as an integral part of the design. It also looks like the machined side plates are massive.

It will be interesting watching the progress on this project this year.

[MrSprinklz]

2 hours ago, Dirk said:

2- The Milo's toolhead only moves in the Z direction, which makes it very stable. This one moves the toolhead also in the Y direction, making it less sturdy.

I think they said in the video this was done because you can do multiple shallow passes with little stress on the toolhead in the same time as one deep pass with significant force. I'm no machinist BTW, just repeating the reason stated in the video. 

[Penatr8tor]

So... Basically... It's a bed slinger. 

All kidding aside, It will be interesting to see how this device evolves. The build streamers will get some mileage from this and pull in the early adopters and we will see. Should be fun.

[claudermilk]

Well, yes, that was my thought, too. But then I realized essentially the Milo is as well, so too are the Tormachs I've seen on various YT'er videos (mainly Robert Cowan). So....

[7milesup]

If the pricing is roughly accurate, that is a lot of money for a desktop machine.  I wonder how much experience the developers have with machining. 

When I started my hobby machining journey, I bought a used Harbor Freight mini-mill. I quickly realized that it was way too small and had no mass. I sold that and purchased a benchtop mill. I owned that for a few years but wasn't really happy, and I realized/learned that mass is everything when you are talking machining. I then purchased a knee mill. The difference in milling capabilities was significant. 

 

I'm sorry, but I see this Voron "CNC" as nothing more than a toy.

A picture of my current mill...

[claudermilk]

Well, compared to that it certainly is a toy. Any of the hobby, desktop ones are.

[7milesup]

I didn't mean to be arrogant by posting a picture of my mill. I firmly believe in mass, but I also understand that many people can't move a 4000lb mill around either.

I was initially surprised at the cost of the Voron Cascade mill (high), but after looking at a few others, it seems they might be in the ballpark.  I like the linear rails and believe that is a good solution for linear travel.  I would consider mist cooling a must, especially at those spindle speeds, requiring an air compressor with some tank volume (20-gallon min). 

One problem with such a small work area is once you figure in fixturing for your parts, you will quickly run out of room.  Overall, it seems very small.

I do feel that the Print CNC and others already have a leg up on the Voron, though. 

[claudermilk]

I certainly didn't read it as such. Your comment is exactly correct from what I've learned of CNC mills.

That said, looking in from outside, I see a place for these reprap style DIY mills. They are smaller and less expensive so a lower bar of entry to get started. For projects within their capabilities, they make it accessible. Plus, it scratches the maker itch to be able to build one.

[Penatr8tor]

OK, Time to chime in and get people mad again. 

Here's where I see these little "project" CNC mills fitting in. If you want to mill anything from baseball size to larger, then you need a legit mill, the minimum being a knee mill. Same goes for cutting any ferrous metals.

Now... If want to mill small parts from nonferrous metals the size of a baseball or smaller... All of the project CNC mills are more than up to the task. No, you're not going to hog out material with a large depth of cut but you will be able to machine smaller stuff.

Like what? You may ask...

I could see myself cutting custom toolhead components like the one on the VzBoT. It would also work great to cut G10 fiberglass or CF sheet or any sheet stock. In fact... all of the CNC parts I just put on my Voron refurb could be cut on any of the project CNC mills without issue.

So, I see the project CNC mills as a Ford Ranger pickup, the Bridgeport as an F350 and so on up the scale.

And FWIW... there are plenty of small jobs where even at slow feeds and speeds, the little CNC mill will spank the knee mill because you don't have to stand in front of it and turn cranks. And once you want to mill a non-planar surface... the knee mill loses, period but if you want to skim the head of your 4 banger... the knee mill is the winner.

It really comes down to scale IMO.

Different jobs... Different tools.

[Durahl]

On 4/25/2024 at 4:54 PM, MrSprinklz said:

I think they said in the video this was done because you can do multiple shallow passes with little stress on the toolhead in the same time as one deep pass with significant force. I'm no machinist BTW, just repeating the reason stated in the video. 

While doing shallow passes is an option, it is a terrible one as you'll only ever be using the tip of your cutter wearing it out faster while wasting all the cutting potential it has above that area.

[claudermilk]

Welcome to the forum!

But what about machining the sides? I am also not a machinist, but it does seem to me the end will wear faster no matter what since that will always be in contact. Also, with these being hobby machines I doubt they will be running 24/7 like a commercial one would be so yeah the tools will wear faster, but I'd think it would still take longer will only intermittent use on small parts.

[Penatr8tor]

11 hours ago, Durahl said:

While doing shallow passes is an option, it is a terrible one as you'll only ever be using the tip of your cutter wearing it out faster while wasting all the cutting potential it has above that area.

You make a valid point, but I would add...

Tool wear is going to vary depending on many factors and while doing shallow passes increases the time the tool is cutting for a given task... things like material hardness, cooling, depth of cut, etc., etc., also play a roll. Now if machining parts from aluminum costs me 2-3 tools per part... I would certainly be concerned but, I don't think that it's so common that it becomes showstopper.

And FWIW... if you're burning thru tools... you probably need to look for a bigger machine. 

[Penatr8tor]

@7milesup

FWIW... I would kill for a decent knee mill. Good on you for having the space and getting one.