Wall bulge

[MBPrints]

Hi all, I have posted on this topic before but I believe I have found the problem I just don't know how to fix it. I keep getting this wall bulge at the layer where there is a solid infill in the middle of this box design. Upon looking at the specific layer in orca and creality print i can see the inner wall is out of line. It isn't inline with the verticle walls above it. This also means there is a gap between the wall and the top surface infill. There's also only one wall not 2 being printed. Does anyone have any idea what setting is resulting in this slicer error? 

 

Edited April 9 by MBPrints

[mvdveer]

Have you tried the wall setting as "inner/outer/inner". The third of the choices on the list

[MBPrints]

On 4/10/2024 at 8:51 PM, mvdveer said:

Have you tried the wall setting as "inner/outer/inner". The third of the choices on the list

I haven't but I did outer/inner and still had this problem so i figured this wont do anything?

[jmc5113]

The bulge could be due to warping of the part while printing. Once it gets to the large flat surface the part cools and warps, then the thin wall is printed but the layers below have been pulled in. Also the gap between the solid fill and the wall could be because of the single perimeter on top surface setting. (Not sure exactly what it's called as I don't use orca.) Perhaps it's a bug because it looks like it's not properly connecting the solid fill to the wall. 

Edited April 24 by jmc5113

[MBPrints]

11 hours ago, jmc5113 said:

The bulge could be due to warping of the part while printing. Once it gets to the large flat surface the part cools and warps, then the thin wall is printed but the layers below have been pulled in. Also the gap between the solid fill and the wall could be because of the single perimeter on top surface setting. (Not sure exactly what it's called as I don't use orca.) Perhaps it's a bug because it looks like it's not properly connecting the solid fill to the wall. 

Hi there, thanks for the comment. I do believe it's because of warping, I've tried messing with the minimum print print and cooling for different layer times, but had no change, I did also manage to fix the top surface to have three walls and the problem still exists, so the problem still remains a mystery. 

[jmc5113]

I'm not an expert at abs printing but chamber temp seems like the biggest key to success to minimize warping while the print is still running. 

 

That is really strange. Your part doesn't seem unusual in that area. Do you see this on other parts with a flat area and a wall? 

[DelphiXE]

I'm currently printing ABS (and some ASA) with Orcaslicer and never had an issue related to that.
But I noticed some problems with the interlocking of small extrusions on a lage surface and didn't knew a fix. 

But I checkd out if I had the latest Version of the Slicer (currently 2.0.0) and I didn't. The Update fixed the problem for me (you can try it with a portable version as well).
So maybe this got fixed already. Otherwise it also could help, if you rotate the part 90° on the z-Axis. I fixed a lot of weird behaviors of the slicer with that trick. 

Since the Image you took is not to clear for me to see the problem, it would be helpful, if you provide a better view of the error. 

[Buurman]

As said before, true, this is warping effect, print comes up a few mm and creates this thick layer. Put the print flat on a table and you probably see the bended part.

Heat up your chamber longer if possible, install some bed fans OR run your part cooling on 100% 5cm above your bed to create some circulation in the chamber.

Do this for 20 minutes or so, from room temp to 45 degrees C or so.

A part like this is easy to warp, long surface and thin, if you cant get your chamber temp towards 60 degrees C, dont run the fans too hard (25/30% max) if you CAN get the chamber to 60 degrees, you can run them faster 40/50%. 

Chamber temp is the key here, like said by @jmc5113 assuming you have a decent quality ABS. (because some ABS out there is unprintable)

[MBPrints]

1 hour ago, Buurman said:

As said before, true, this is warping effect, print comes up a few mm and creates this thick layer. Put the print flat on a table and you probably see the bended part.

Heat up your chamber longer if possible, install some bed fans OR run your part cooling on 100% 5cm above your bed to create some circulation in the chamber.

Do this for 20 minutes or so, from room temp to 45 degrees C or so.

A part like this is easy to warp, long surface and thin, if you cant get your chamber temp towards 60 degrees C, dont run the fans too hard (25/30% max) if you CAN get the chamber to 60 degrees, you can run them faster 40/50%. 

Chamber temp is the key here, like said by @jmc5113 assuming you have a decent quality ABS. (because some ABS out there is unprintable)

 

2 hours ago, DelphiXE said:

I'm currently printing ABS (and some ASA) with Orcaslicer and never had an issue related to that.
But I noticed some problems with the interlocking of small extrusions on a lage surface and didn't knew a fix. 

But I checkd out if I had the latest Version of the Slicer (currently 2.0.0) and I didn't. The Update fixed the problem for me (you can try it with a portable version as well).
So maybe this got fixed already. Otherwise it also could help, if you rotate the part 90° on the z-Axis. I fixed a lot of weird behaviors of the slicer with that trick. 

Since the Image you took is not to clear for me to see the problem, it would be helpful, if you provide a better view of the error. 

 

2 hours ago, jmc5113 said:

I'm not an expert at abs printing but chamber temp seems like the biggest key to success to minimize warping while the print is still running. 

That is really strange. Your part doesn't seem unusual in that area. Do you see this on other parts with a flat area and a wall? 

Thanks everyone for the comments I though a global reply would be easiest. I haven't personally printed different types of 3D prints with this, but if you search up this problem online there seems to be alot of people in the prusa community that experience the same problem. I have tried everything in orca slicer 2.0 including rotating and the issue also occurs in creality print. I usually let the printer heat up for a while till the chamber temp reaches around 50 degrees and it usually stays at around this temp during the print. No matter what i do I can't fix the problem

[Buurman]

Whats the brand ABS?

Prusament? cause well, there is nothing better than that.. so ...

And can you see warping? or is it something else?

[MBPrints]

Happens with prusament, polylite and esun. There is minimal warping sometimes

[chrisalbertson]

The first question I would ask is "What is the chamber temperature?  It should be reasonably high.    One thing you might try, but it is not a nice solution is have the slicer build a "draft shield" about 5 mm from the part.   This will trap some warm air and make the local temperature, near the part higher than the chamber temperature

 

Next question is "Do you really need solid infil?"   I bet that you could do with 50% or 40%.     We call this "design for manufacturing".  In other words, if this part were milled frm metal, you doubt design it knowing how the metal would be removed and design the part so that your machine, with its limitations, could make the part.    It is the same here, If you know that certain shapes and kinds of infill don't work well, just don't do that.   This is not "cheating".  People have need doing this for centuries.   Furniture made of wood is the shape it is so that it can be made with woodworking tools.   Blacksmiths do the same thing.     When I design funtional 3D printed parts, I think about infill and flexing and final strenth.

[DelphiXE]

18 hours ago, chrisalbertson said:

The first question I would ask is "What is the chamber temperature?  It should be reasonably high.    One thing you might try, but it is not a nice solution is have the slicer build a "draft shield" about 5 mm from the part.   This will trap some warm air and make the local temperature, near the part higher than the chamber temperature

Next question is "Do you really need solid infil?"   I bet that you could do with 50% or 40%.     We call this "design for manufacturing".  In other words, if this part were milled frm metal, you doubt design it knowing how the metal would be removed and design the part so that your machine, with its limitations, could make the part.    It is the same here, If you know that certain shapes and kinds of infill don't work well, just don't do that.   This is not "cheating".  People have need doing this for centuries.   Furniture made of wood is the shape it is so that it can be made with woodworking tools.   Blacksmiths do the same thing.     When I design funtional 3D printed parts, I think about infill and flexing and final strenth.

Oh, now I understand the Problem fully. 

Have you tried to switch the Infill pattern to monotonic line? (If I remeber correct monotonic overlaps infill with wall, so you have extra material and monotonic line has not, Infill Patterns | Bambu Lab Wiki)

 

[MBPrints]

8 hours ago, DelphiXE said:

Oh, now I understand the Problem fully. 

Have you tried to switch the Infill pattern to monotonic line? (If I remeber correct monotonic overlaps infill with wall, so you have extra material and monotonic line has not, Infill Patterns | Bambu Lab Wiki)

I'll give it a shot, thanks.

 

[MBPrints]

On 4/28/2024 at 7:38 AM, chrisalbertson said:

The first question I would ask is "What is the chamber temperature?  It should be reasonably high.    One thing you might try, but it is not a nice solution is have the slicer build a "draft shield" about 5 mm from the part.   This will trap some warm air and make the local temperature, near the part higher than the chamber temperature

Next question is "Do you really need solid infil?"   I bet that you could do with 50% or 40%.     We call this "design for manufacturing".  In other words, if this part were milled frm metal, you doubt design it knowing how the metal would be removed and design the part so that your machine, with its limitations, could make the part.    It is the same here, If you know that certain shapes and kinds of infill don't work well, just don't do that.   This is not "cheating".  People have need doing this for centuries.   Furniture made of wood is the shape it is so that it can be made with woodworking tools.   Blacksmiths do the same thing.     When I design funtional 3D printed parts, I think about infill and flexing and final strenth.

I use a infill of 15%, chamber temperature is pretty stable at 50 degrees