Bootstrap problems

[xyleth]

Alternatively’Xy learns to print ABS’

I am at the point where I’m ready to put the enclosure panels in place on my build, but the kit didn’t come with the retaining clips.  I guess those are considered decorative parts.  I’d like to print these in ABS but I’ve never printed ABS before so have a few questions.

Essentially I’m trying to work out if I’m stuck in a dependency loop.  Need the enclosure to print ABS, need ABS parts to fit the enclosure ,can’t print ABS without the enclosure, go to start.

Can I print small, flat parts with only the heated bed and no enclosure?

My other option is to print clips in PETG on the current printer and the reprint later, but I’d rather avoid that if I can.

[claudermilk]

Tape cardboard panels over the printer, print the clips in PLA, then with the panels on print them again in ABS. Heck, throw a trash bag over it.

For my Trident, I printed all the parts in ABS on my Prusa Mini+ with its shipping box thrown over it. There were a few challenges, but 90% of those original parts are still on the printer.

[MrSprinklz]

A lot of people use painters tape to attach the panels while printing panel clips.

[mvdveer]

I think most of us used a cardboard box. I was fortunate to have a Ender 5 in an Ikea Lack enclosure, but have used a cardboard box to print the clips for those panels

[xyleth]

The plan is currently to use up the random PLA that came with the printer to print some clips and then re-do in ABS once thats all working

[jadoglio]

Just print it in ABS.  I printed lots of things in ABS on my Ender 3 without an enclosure.   Try a few see what happens.  Nothing to lose. 

[dshess]

On 4/12/2024 at 6:52 AM, jadoglio said:

Just print it in ABS.  I printed lots of things in ABS on my Ender 3 without an enclosure.   Try a few see what happens.  Nothing to lose. 

Yeah, panel clips are not all that tall, so you can probably get away with it.  Maybe don't print too many at once so that the heat from the bed can compensate or lack of enclosure, and maybe enable a draft shield.

But, really, just tape some cardboard around the printer.  It works just fine.  I used clear packaging tape to make a window in the box I put over my bedslinger, it worked pretty well once I put a random LED lamp from my camera kit in there.

Arguing from the other side ... if you just built it, printing some PLA parts might be good practice while you dial things in :-).  Panel clips probably don't whether they are PLA, though you might care if they don't have the same surface finish as your other printed parts.

[xyleth]

I took the PLA route, using up some old spools so it’s a bit of a mush-mash.  But it works!

I’ll reprint them in appropriately coloured ABS at some point.  Honest…..

[claudermilk]

...and we'll tease you until you do. 

[xyleth]

I expect nothing less

 

I do, however, need to get extraction to the outside air working before I can print in ABS at scale.  Even with the Nevermore it's hard to be in the same room as the printer when it's printing ABS and not get a headache from the fumes.  I just need to decide if I;

• move the printer so I can use the existing extraction I put in place for my resin setup
• extend the hose from there to the printer
• drill a new hole in a different wall and vent this one separately

Edited April 16 by xyleth

[xyleth]

The aforementioned existing setup. That’s a 100mm inline extractor of the sort used for hydroponics rooms - shifts plenty of air!

The 100mm hose is for general room extraction or fits onto my airbrush spray booth when I’m doing some base coating. The 32mm ID hose is for the SLA printer and it’s probably that I’d look to hook the Voron up to (it’s on a magnetic mount). The flow is lower but should be enough to provide negative pressure without dropping temps too much. 
 

the downside is that fan is loud when it’s running!  So you don’t get a headache from the fumes, you get it from the noise instead . With the SLA printer I’ve taken to only printing over night and then using the fan to turn over the air in the office before I come in of a morning. 
 

a quieter option would be to use a 120mm PC fan inline with some 63mm dust extraction hose to the Voron and then out another 100mm hole in the office wall. Won’t be as much airflow, but should still be enough to maintain negative pressure. 
 

would welcome thoughts from anyone with experience of doing this themselves!

[Penatr8tor]

8 hours ago, xyleth said:

I took the PLA route, using up some old spools so it’s a bit of a mush-mash.  But it works!

PLA is plenty strong and, in many cases, stronger than ABS. The issue with PLA is that it's not very heat tolerant. The clips, the outer skirt, fan covers and pretty much anything on the outside can be PLA (if the printer is indoors).

 

[xyleth]

36 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

PLA is plenty strong and, in many cases, stronger than ABS. The issue with PLA is that it's not very heat tolerant. The clips, the outer skirt, fan covers and pretty much anything on the outside can be PLA (if the printer is indoors).

Oh, you can?  I'd assumed that all the external parts were designed with ABS shrinkage in mind like the internal ones and so wouldn't quite fit if printed in PLA.  Only having to print the few remaining in-chamber bits in ABS and then being able to switch to PLA for everything else would be a big help!

[dshess]

2 hours ago, xyleth said:

I do, however, need to get extraction to the outside air working before I can print in ABS at scale.  Even with the Nevermore it's hard to be in the same room as the printer when it's printing ABS and not get a headache from the fumes.

I'm still trying to figure this out.  When printing my V0.2 parts, I had my hacked bedslinger in a separate room I could enclose, with a ZeroFilter (like Nevermore) in the enclosure hard-wired to an appropriate wallwart, with a portable HEPA filter, and the smell was very noticeable in the room.  But with two ZeroFilter units in the V0.2, I don't notice any smell at all.  I don't think the V0.2 is super airtight, though it is possible that my airflow patterns are better or something so that it doesn't push the air out of the enclosure (totally unintentional, if so).  Or I suppose it could be that hour-long prints just don't generate as much fumes.

But, yeah, I'm pondering how to add some venting.  I don't think you necessarily need a shop-level system that can handle instant extraction of sawdust or solder fumes, if only because that level of extraction would demolish your chamber temps.  Instead I'm thinking more along the lines of a pretty light negative pressure with the goal of turning over the entire volume in a reasonable amount of time.  Like maybe aim for 2x or 3x the amount of time it takes to heat the chamber.

[dshess]

5 hours ago, xyleth said:

Oh, you can?  I'd assumed that all the external parts were designed with ABS shrinkage in mind like the internal ones and so wouldn't quite fit if printed in PLA.  Only having to print the few remaining in-chamber bits in ABS and then being able to switch to PLA for everything else would be a big help!

Filament shrinkage scales with size, so it matters more for long spans.  I once printed a 200mm MOSFET bracket, and the mounting holes were like 1mm too close to force, whereas if they were 20mm apart that would have been 0.1mm, which would be easy to force.  For clips it hardly matters, because they don't reference specific spans.  The center bolt hole fits or not, the corner clips just have to be perpendicular.  I suppose the panels could be a little loose in Z, but there is probably a bit of tolerance for that designed in.

Another trick might be to set your filament shrinkage to 100.5% (or 99.5%, depending on how your slicer works), so that the slicer adjusts the PLA sizes down to match ABS.  Probably an over-optimization rabbit hole, though.

[Thorin]

Hi , I am the proud owner of 6 Vorons. One V2.4 , 3 Tridents ( one of them I ´ve modified all parts to build it with 3030 extrusions, it´s a 350 builds, that means nearly all parts , particularly the panel clips ) , 1 V0  and 1 TinyM ( a project based on a V0). The v2.4 had skirt parts and clips form ABS. Meanwhile all printers have skirts form PETG-CF except one its from PLA-CF and all have panel clips from PETG except one ist from PC. I can´t see any disadvantages of that. Besides the inner parts are from PC, the colored parts and the main parts from Prusa PC-Carbon and Priline PC-CF. Jus two printers have colored inner parts from ABS. What will I say ? For outer parts it really doesn´t matter, IF the printer is under normal room-conditions. Take that materal you are able to print best or that material you can get matching colors to the inner parts ( they should be ABS or PC , nylon isnt´t that great some are creeping and some are extreemly expensive and not easy to print).  If you like PETG , go for it !

Why do I print my skirtparts in PETG-CF ? - I like the haptic of the parts and the othe parts have to match the colors.

Problems ? Plenty , but never some with printed parts in therms quality, just for beauty reasons

Cheers!

[Buurman]

On 4/16/2024 at 4:53 PM, xyleth said:

The aforementioned existing setup. That’s a 100mm inline extractor of the sort used for hydroponics rooms - shifts plenty of air!

The 100mm hose is for general room extraction or fits onto my airbrush spray booth when I’m doing some base coating. The 32mm ID hose is for the SLA printer and it’s probably that I’d look to hook the Voron up to (it’s on a magnetic mount). The flow is lower but should be enough to provide negative pressure without dropping temps too much. 
 

the downside is that fan is loud when it’s running!  So you don’t get a headache from the fumes, you get it from the noise instead . With the SLA printer I’ve taken to only printing over night and then using the fan to turn over the air in the office before I come in of a morning. 
 

a quieter option would be to use a 120mm PC fan inline with some 63mm dust extraction hose to the Voron and then out another 100mm hole in the office wall. Won’t be as much airflow, but should still be enough to maintain negative pressure. 
 

would welcome thoughts from anyone with experience of doing this themselves!

I am using an inline 100mm fan, you know one for smoke extrusion, not connected to klipper or otherwise, its always running, slowly.

I used an adapter to get from 100mm to 60mm and connected that to the printer, still my printer has no issues heating up to 45/50 degrees and (almost) never have warping.

I used another exhaust print on the back so it connects to the top with magnets, very handy, if you need to move the printer a bit, for maintenance or other shit.. uhh, stuff.

https://thealuminumcarpenter.com/products/voron-2-4-exhaust-system-v2

You can use the fan mentioned on the website too ofcourse, I found that the inline smoke fan system is a bit of overkill, its running at 5% or so.