Tradrack vs ERCF v2 : Size comparison

[mvdveer]

Though I would post this to show the size difference between the TradRack and the ERCF v2. Both are 6 lanes. The footprint of the tradrack (with binky mod) is about 1/2 to 2/3 the size of the ERCF. The photos don't really do it justice, as the eRCF also has the buffer mounted.

Build wise the tradrack is 100% easier to build - less parts, less complicated.

  

Time for some printer maintenance. Going toad gantry backers to them all and convert from TAP to Beacon and add the MMU units. Two will get tradracks (one original, no binky) and the other the ERCF v2. Will update a performance comparison then. 

[kingstar]

Have you ever looked at the 3DChameleon? Nero did a recent video talking about an upcoming MK4 addition. Turns out the MK3 edition has been upgraded to the MK4 hardware and future firmware updates will bring it up to MK4 level. Seems very simple and inexpensive for multi-material.

 

https://www.3dchameleon.com/

[mvdveer]

1 hour ago, kingstar said:

Have you ever looked at the 3DChameleon? Nero did a recent video talking about an upcoming MK4 addition. Turns out the MK3 edition has been upgraded to the MK4 hardware and future firmware updates will bring it up to MK4 level. Seems very simple and inexpensive for multi-material.

https://www.3dchameleon.com/

No I have not - thanks for the link, will have a look

[pottedporkproduct]

Did you find a Binky mod for Tradrack for 6mm belts? I can only find 9mm belt parts on Printables.

[mvdveer]

3 hours ago, pottedporkproduct said:

Did you find a Binky mod for Tradrack for 6mm belts? I can only find 9mm belt parts on Printables.

Short answer: No.

I used the 9mm as I also could not find a 6mm version. There has been request (I think you were one that requested it) on the author's printable page for a 6mm belt version but nothing so far. Neither are there step files included for alteration in his repo. Did not really bother to compare the binky mod for tradrack with the binky for ERCF. Took the easy way out and used what was there, as this was a new build. My original tradrack does not have the binky mod.

[mvdveer]

On 2/7/2024 at 6:59 AM, kingstar said:

Have you ever looked at the 3DChameleon? Nero did a recent video talking about an upcoming MK4 addition. Turns out the MK3 edition has been upgraded to the MK4 hardware and future firmware updates will bring it up to MK4 level. Seems very simple and inexpensive for multi-material.

https://www.3dchameleon.com/

Had a look at this but it seems this will only work with Bowden systems, not direct drive extruders. Another similar concept is THE SMUFF.  Haven't gone down that rabbit hole as again the main implementation is for Bowden extruders.

[kingstar]

58 minutes ago, mvdveer said:

Had a look at this but it seems this will only work with Bowden systems, not direct drive extruders. Another similar concept is THE SMUFF.  Haven't gone down that rabbit hole as again the main implementation is for Bowden extruders.

No, it definitely works for direct drive as well. It’s in the FAQ and some of the videos show it.

[pottedporkproduct]

7 hours ago, mvdveer said:

Short answer: No.

I used the 9mm as I also could not find a 6mm version. There has been request (I think you were one that requested it) on the author's printable page for a 6mm belt version but nothing so far. Neither are there step files included for alteration in his repo. Did not really bother to compare the binky mod for tradrack with the binky for ERCF. Took the easy way out and used what was there, as this was a new build. My original tradrack does not have the binky mod.

Yeah, that was me. I was hoping you had found something in the Annex Discord server somewhere that I had missed. Pity that Ryan hasn't released the CAD for the stock parts either, it's really hard to tell what has changed between the 6 and 9mm versions.

I have a BTT SFS 1.0 on my 2.4 already, so it's not like I _don't_ have an encoder on it, but MoggieUK says it doesn't have enough resolution to be useful for Happy Hare, so I'm on my own trying to make it work right in concert with either HappyHare or the TradRack firmware. And, the filament path through those first gen smart filament sensors is a bit finicky, I have to manually intervene every 5th filament change.

[claudermilk]

So...easier to build, fewer parts, AND half the footprint? Makes the choice fairly easy.

[AKinferno]

 What about reliability? Supposedly, v2 increases the reliability of ERCF. But seems the tradrack solved most of the rigidity issues using the rail and extrusion. Haven't seen much in way of comparison between the two.

[Dirk]

ERCF v2 has just been 1.5 months since it has been released. I only see positive stories. And since it is linked to the name VORON, I believe it has a much larger exposure. 

Tradrack is still in beta phase for a while now if I am not wrong. And only few people know about it. Only thing you can say as an individual that it looks good, sturdy, fast, rigid. Nowhere you can find anything about the problems that has taunted ERCF v1. Or the lengthy process of tuning the v1. Because, I think, there are not so many people that can complain about it.

The only thing I have now heard about the makers of Tradrack (Annex, right?) is, that they ban you from their discord if you ask for a comparison between Beacon and IDM or Cartographer3D probes. I guess they have the same attitude towards questions about ERCF vs Tradrack.

I sure think Tradrack looks easier to build, simpler than the ERCF. But I doubt it will be as widely used as Tradrack. As a comparison, I think @mvdveer has made a very good start with comparing the builds. I am sure he will also come up at some time with a comparison in usability / reliability. 
I am sure it will take a while before such videos will pop up on youtube.  

[H4kunaMatata]

I share the same opinion, TradRack is a lot easier but I've used Beacon myself in the past and customer service was as dogshit as it gets so folks getting banned isn't a surprise.

The only things I hear about it is that it's solid, easy to build with zero headaches. I know a dude using the ERCF board instead of their proprietary one.

What sucks is the "company" attitude when things don't go as they want.

ERCF is bulkier, tons of problems during its life although V2 "is allegedly better", wider community support and KlipperScreen support so you can manage it via the display which is awesome.

[LoneWolf]

4 hours ago, Dirk said:

The only thing I have now heard about the makers of Tradrack (Annex, right?) is, that they ban you from their discord if you ask for a comparison between Beacon and IDM or Cartographer3D probes. I guess they have the same attitude towards questions about ERCF vs Tradrack.

I can't speak for the Beacon, IDM topic as never saw anyone getting banned over it.

But being there since closed beta there were a lot of questions regarding ERCF comparison features etc, no-one got banned for it, there were even people doing mods for the TR to add encoders based on ERCF stuff and being shared there, zero bans.

[Dirk]

Ah. That is great. I am glad the things I read elsewhere were just false accusations then.

So, it means there is a lot of comparison of features already, then? Please let us know if there is anything available for the public. Since there is a lot of interest as you can see. 
And indeed I have seen a mod released on Printables, which was released during the closed beta. Making Tradrack work with happy hare. 

I hope we will soon know even more than what has been presented here about the two systems.

[pottedporkproduct]

@Dirk Tradrack works with HappyHare with no hardware modifications, per the author Moggieuk. The Printables mod is the Binky encoder, which is not required for either ERCF or TradRack, as long as you have the filament load sensor below the extruder gears.

The Annex Discord mentions ERCF plenty of times, and I haven’t seen anyone jump down anyone else’s throat in the tr_general channel when ERCF is brought up.

[Dirk]

I am sure they are all very friendly at Annex.

I tried to log on to the discord server. It asked for a phone number with verification. Reason why I do not have social media accounts, has to do with this kind of privacy invasion. I only logged on to 4 discord servers until now, and none had such invasive security measures.

Thanks for correcting me on the mod origin. Not a hare, but a binky.

As I said before, people must spread false information about people getting banned from the annex discord server when asked for comparisons. Since now two people confirmed it does not happen, I am sure it does not. 

Now... Let us see these comparisons between ERCF / Tradrack and Beacon3d / IDM/ Cartographer. Please. 

Edited February 15 by Dirk

[pottedporkproduct]

On 2/8/2024 at 9:02 PM, pottedporkproduct said:

Yeah, that was me. I was hoping you had found something in the Annex Discord server somewhere that I had missed. Pity that Ryan hasn't released the CAD for the stock parts either, it's really hard to tell what has changed between the 6 and 9mm versions.

I have a BTT SFS 1.0 on my 2.4 already, so it's not like I _don't_ have an encoder on it, but MoggieUK says it doesn't have enough resolution to be useful for Happy Hare, so I'm on my own trying to make it work right in concert with either HappyHare or the TradRack firmware. And, the filament path through those first gen smart filament sensors is a bit finicky, I have to manually intervene every 5th filament change.

Talking to myself over here - I had too many failed prints due to a crappy filament path and a clogged print head, plus some underextrusion. I paid the pain and figured out what was needed to get the Binky encoder mounted on the 6mm belt carriage, and the short answer is - use a self tapper for the top screw. No need to replace the carriage at all, especially if you want to belt-and-suspenders a limit switch and an encoder. Then, I added the Annex Belay sensor to help with extruder syncing. The whole mess looks like this now:

Edited February 24 by pottedporkproduct