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Paul T's Voron 2.4 Build


Paul Trautner

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On 2/3/2024 at 2:46 PM, atrushing said:

It depends on just how much plastic you want to push or how fast you are trying to go. That plus your budget..

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The Rapido/Dragon UHF versions as well as the VolcoMosq require shrouds that are 8.5mm longer. The Dragon ACE and the T-Volcano (requires some assembly..) are more compact while still having a lot of heater block mass. I will be trying out the CHCB-V V6DM soon, it has a 70W ceramic plate heater and a taller melt zone and is pretty low cost (~$40). The Dragon HF is supposed to be able to do 30mm^3/sec and is the same size as a Dragon ST.

 

The Triangle labs Dragon Ace caught my eye but right now I would say if the cost is less than 120 I would want the best option for flexibility. I print 0.4mm nozzle at 0.2mm layer height mostly so I don't need crazy flow but I do want to use the full potential of the Voron 2.4, my current Rapido V1 has treated me well and with a CHT nozzle has great flow which is why I am leaning towards the V2. Only thing I don't like about the option is how you need to bend the wires to fit in the Stealthburner body. 

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8 hours ago, Paul Trautner said:

I don't need crazy flow but I do want to use the full potential of the Voron 2.4

I have mostly used the Dragonfly but when bumping up the speeds to around 240mm/sec I hit the 20mm^3/sec flow limits of it. Phaetus says that the Dragon ST has less flow than the Dragonfly but the Dragon HF is supposed to be good for 30mm^3/sec. I haven't really been able to test it yet though..

One problem I've heard that comes from the really high flow nozzles is that they tend to ooze more and can cause stringing.

Edited by atrushing
added flow calculator link
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I have several Rapido's. The one I use with my 2.4 is a UHF where I use cheap CHT nozzles I bought off of AliExpress for 4 euros per 5 pieces.

I used (amongst others) two sites to read about flow and so on... Of course all my knowledge starts Ellis's guide. (He should have written and published an e-book online). In his templates for super slicer he sets the Rapido UHF with CHT nozzle at 45mm3/s.

I followed this beautiful video from CNC Kitchen - Hallo Stefan, and I can extrude just above 45mm3/s without a problem with my Rapido UHF and Cheap chinese (volcano) CHT nozzle. According to the formula given by Ellis on the linked page, I set my max printing speed to 450mm/s, with typical Voron Print settings (ABS, 0.2mm layer, 0.4mm nozzle) and I get quite accurate prints. All looks good, even though I do not think I match the speed of a printer with 48v AB drivers, it looks fast, at 450mm/s and 12.000mm/s2 acceleration.

oozing.. euh... I did not notice it. In any way, it is not very noticable. Not with ABS. (PETG is a different story).

I would recommend to perform the test from Hallo Stefan if there is any doubt (or just to see the cool droppings on your plate).

 

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Upgraded the hotend to a HF Rapido and the Galileo 2 extruder and the layer consistency is perfectly stacked even under harsh light. I switched from the HGX large gear extruder and can say the Galileo 2 is worth the money. Now I just need to decide if I switch back to the idm scanner or keep the chaotic lab tap system. Both have their pros/cons. 

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6 hours ago, Paul Trautner said:

Both have their pros/cons

You are very right. If you do not want to have any 'update' problems with Klipper, stick with TAP 🙂

Now seriously: TAP is known to be very accurate, and it is a simple thing: pure mechanics (when you do not count in the optical sensor). However this is also its weak point in my opinion. I have also ventilated my idea about 'moving parts' in mechanics and its life-time on this forum about a discussion where the advise was to buy hardware parts from China instead of printing / reprinting them 🙂 TAP is now in its 8th revision I believe. I printed a r8 the last time. With two long screws in it to make it sturdier. I have been using this one for many hundreds of hours. I did have to disassemble my toolhead to tighten / refit / adjust all screws and even re-adjust the rail of the tap. This is in my opinion the weakest point of TAP.

In an environment where you heat up metal / plastic and then cool it off, and have it move, parts will move in time. Which will make it require 'maintenance'. And with a bit of bad luck, failed prints and lost hours.

I know it takes a long time to tap the whole print area before printing, but as you also know it is well worth the few minutes you add to your printing time.

The IDM / Beacon / Cartographer probes do remove this few minutes extra time. But they also remove the need for a sturdy body, extra weight, but above all the extra maintenance that is required. In turn you have the hassles with the software updates and probable problems with overheating of the chip (IDM/Carto), possible effects of heat shift to the accuracy.

I would say: if you have a working combination which makes printing fun for you, stick with it.

 

 

 

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  • 3 months later...
On 1/13/2024 at 5:22 PM, Paul Trautner said:

Did not make much more progress on the printer but I did tear apart the harmonic drive to look for the source of backlash and I think I found it and can print a part to resolve it. I have made one sample and just need to make a test fixture to try it out before I modify all the others. It seems like the ellipse that flexes the bearing was not large enough to get the teeth to touch on both side. I have added about 1mm to the long dimension and it seems to respond to input motion much better. 

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Hello, how did you solve this?

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  • 2 months later...

Looking for some advice, I printed for a long time with Galileo 2 extruder and voron tap with great print results. I recently switched back to the IDM scanner and the LGX large gear extruder and when I went to tune everything I got very poor results for input shaper. I have switched back to the Galileo extruder and tap and still getting similar poor print results. I wanted to get some suggestions on what to look at or try. Below is what I have tried:

1) Took apart gantry and cleaned all idlers and checked bearing to see if they feel normal.

2) Replaced the belts twice, first with "high" quality amazon belts and second with genuine gates belts

3) Tried different belt tensions

4) Updated main board and canbus board to latest version.

5) Replaced canbus board with a older one with same results.

6) Deleted klipper from CB1 and re-installed

With everything I have tried I am still getting poor input shaper results which show up in print quality. If I print a calibration cube at fast and slow speeds I get extremely rounded edges. Last thing I was going to try was fully wipe the CB1 and re-install everything from scratch but I wanted to get other ideas first.

Input results before problems:

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and now

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image.thumb.png.15ff145c81ec9bea58e714ddff22e376.png

 

I have checked everything mechanical I can think of and everything seem to work perfect so please give me your ideas

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  • 2 weeks later...

For anyone having similar problems, I found the source of the low input shaper graphs due to loose screws that held the gantry to the z axis but after tightening and back to getting good graphs I was still getting poor print quality. I replaced all the idler bearings, cleaned all the rails, and meticulously reassembled everything and still had the same print problems. After thinking for many hours I remember that I replaced the nozzle with a brand new CHT bi-metal so I figured I would swap it back to see if it changed anything and I found the source of the problem. Print quality is back to a high level, would have never guessed that a new nozzle could have caused the issue.   

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Thanks for sharing the solution with us @Paul Trautner. I would not have guessed that a bad CHT was causing this bad print quality.

The x-axis graph looks indeed real lousy (from 7/26/24), and I would have also looked for loose parts with that. but now I am too late, sorry.

Another thing I would have done with these very 'round-corners' is to reduce the corner speed velocity. I know you have a very tuned printer, but unless you have extreme short belt paths (like with the Monolith gantry) or 48v motors and AWD like with a vzbot, a corner speed velocity of 20mm/s (against the default for stock voron 2.4 of 5mm/s) would also explain corners getting very round.

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1 hour ago, Dirk said:

Thanks for sharing the solution with us @Paul Trautner. I would not have guessed that a bad CHT was causing this bad print quality.

The x-axis graph looks indeed real lousy (from 7/26/24), and I would have also looked for loose parts with that. but now I am too late, sorry.

Another thing I would have done with these very 'round-corners' is to reduce the corner speed velocity. I know you have a very tuned printer, but unless you have extreme short belt paths (like with the Monolith gantry) or 48v motors and AWD like with a vzbot, a corner speed velocity of 20mm/s (against the default for stock voron 2.4 of 5mm/s) would also explain corners getting very round.

I did not think it could be the nozzle either which is way it was the last thing I looked at. Good news is that my HGX extruder design is producing print results as good as Galileo 2 or better. I like having a latch for removing the filament but did not have great results with version on pintables so I purchased the "twirl" version gears and re-mixed the design. Just uploaded the design to printables if anyone is interested in another extruder design.   

 

https://www.printables.com/model/965619-hgx-twirl-gear-cw2-extruder-for-stealth-burner

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  • 1 month later...

Hello, Really liked your approach on solving Z issues
Do You have any Downloadable files for mounting Motors(or u used galielio mountig brackets)?
Is QGL become less pain?

 

Edited by Maruf
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