LDO v2.4 / 350 ; mod log, more than a build log.

[YaaJ]

First mod will be a drawer for the electronics. Because accessing electronics from under is just crazy (and will be impossible later).

Salvaged some drawer slides from old kitchen furniture. Four printed brackets, done !

Available width : 280mm

The slides will degrade the fans aurflow. Will probably mount 80mm ones, at 45° (92mm fan on the picture)

Currently designing joints that use rods instead of screws for the pulleys. The only design I will use without modification (or with very little) will be the Cahoticlab Z idlers. Others are original Voron remixes. The Zero will start printing the parts soon. Had to design my own for two reasons :

- found the rods not tight enough on artk1213 design, and using far too much rod length.

- I don't have much 5mm G6 rod, have to be thrifty. The last two paper printers I took apart gave only 4, 6 and 8 mm rods (G6 toleranced, but useless there). Really disapointed, given the pile of crap I now have to bring to the recycling center ! (one inkjet and a big laser)

I plan to complete the project by the end of 2023. Other mods that will be done at the begining : umbilical + CAN. Just ordered a EBB 36 CAN V1.1 with Max31865, not a SBxxxx ; didn't want to bother with tiny connectors, and don't care about the added features. Not even sure I'll use the EBB36 2209... Will probably route four more wires so I don't have to worry with the embeded one temperature !

The office/lab now looks like a true nerd bedroom ! (had a leak on the PC that killed the PSU after years without a problem ; some gaskets are not aging well ; 4 GPUs, 1 CPU and 3 radiators : lots of fitings... Why the hell did Lian-Li design the case with air intake from inside ??? Probably because an opening on the bottom would degrade the structural integrity ; and the thing being 35kg, I didn't mod it for this reason...).

It died the day I started CADing for the 2.4 ; Murphy.

No luck for the 2.4 : dead PC PSU (the new one is there but not installed - out of time, using a ugly hacked small PSU), very few 5mm G6 rod, and no news of the ceramic GE5C bearings I ordered.

Edited October 3, 2023 by YaaJ

[Penatr8tor]

Very interesting build. Looking forward to seeing your progress. After completing a VzBoT 330, I've retired my 2.4 300 temporarily so I can do a refit, rebuild, refurb and a few select performance mods and some quality-of-life improvements. I'm going to upgrade my TAP to a Mellow CNC unit. I might install some CF gantry components, maybe a CNC'd X Beam... Lots of possibilities. Of course, I'm also planning a full rework of the bottom electronics bay, so I'm very interested in seeing your drawer-based electronics mod. 

[YaaJ]

The electronics drawer appears to be a lot more tricky than I thought ! Finally not much room because of the slim but large footprint 1U Meanwell PSU. More common SMPSUs are too tall (aand the one I can use is low end, and has no PFC circuit ; the lowend noname that came with the Tevo Tornado. Everything will have to seat on a 280 W x 320 D plate, and the maximum height is 40mm. Will not use the DIN rails. Didn't for the Zero. Instead, printed mounts will be screwed to a steel baseplate. I love DIN rails... when building cabinets for my machine tools. With a huge difference : DIN modules, contactors, relays, PSUs, etc. are all DIN ; and if a PCB is needed, we can get empty DIN modules or print them after routing the PCB to fit.

For now, I'm playing with various layouts... And thinking of the breakout PCB at the back, just before the wirings enter the cable chains. The entire plate and the components will have to be removable at once. Similar to an industrial electrical cabinet. And of course not mixing high and low voltages (unlike the LDO instructions, Zero or 2.4). Not sure Shenzen and european electricians work according to the same standards !

Currently scratching my head...

te. I

I have some CNC components waiting in a couple of baskets on onlines stores, eBay, etc. But the more I think to this, and the more I think that only the XY joints and X axis would benefit from such components, and they should be leightweight (carbon fiber). CoreXY noob, and even more about flying gantries. Was even thinking of making the joints, but machining carbon is known to be a lot worse than cast iron (easy, but what a mess when its time for cleanup ! Can't imagine with epoxy/CF)

Curious to see the Voron 1.0, announced at the Rocky Mountain Maker Fair IIRC. Everything is machined from aluminium on this printer.

 

[claudermilk]

Can you rotate the Pi 90deg to the left? That would be how my two boards are oriented. Putting the GPIO next ot the Octopus makes for a really short jumper for power & I/O. That should leave room above the Pi for a breakout board (where I crammed mine in). The only catch is limited space for any USB cables.

[YaaJ]

Problem is I will route all "consumer IOs" (4x USB, SD card reader, HDMI) to front and rear skirts, like I did on the Zero. Not sure that even FFC flat cables + connectors could fit if the Pi is oriented this way. I plan a PCB with JST connectors to breakout everything that can (motors, endstops, RGB, etc, will not require that much room), and angled screw terminals with connectors for higher currents (or Wagos for PCBs). For now, I didn't print the standard front skirt and the LCD casing, so I don't really know what could be done on the front. Maybe a protruding/angled front skirt, parallel to the LCD or even in the same plane, giving more room... Like large bed slingers. The printer can be 580mm depth where it will seat. And I want the 4"3 LCD to be near to horizontal. Maybe the Pi could live just behind the LCD or beside, freeing some space. To be tested...

I'd also like to add a second SSR for active heating, and a homebrew power control circuit (using a bistable relay controled by the Pi power pins - works great on the bed slinger). At worst, the SSRs could be on the chassis instead of the drawer (bonus : easier routing).

[EDIT] after another fittings iteration, the baseplate will be 300x320 ! This makes a huuuuuuuuge différence ! Two more centimeters would make it possible to rotate the Pi. I didn't measure

Tis is how it's made on the Zero (yes, evan sound goes to a custom Keystone module, so the Zero can be used as a multimedia desktop computer) ; USB plugs that come with Keystones are not really low profile...

Look at the little piece of perfboard, above the SKR Pico ; this how I will break most of the wiring. (this one is for 2 fan chanels, allowing for 2 groups of 3 fans, thinking of exhaust or whatever in the future)

Edited October 4, 2023 by YaaJ

[Penatr8tor]

Move the power supply out of the drawer. That's probably the most robust component of all of them.

I also think that most of the time, you'll be adding lights or a display or camera, etc. and you'll want easy access to the Pi and Controller board. So... things that have peripherals attached go in the drawer, stuff like buck converters and PSU's outside.

[YaaJ]

No room for the PSU elsewhere... But I'm now sure everything will fit. Clearer visualization of the routing now ; with such a layout, the wirires can be routed so the low voltage and high voltage never cross or run side by side. High voltage on the right duct, low voltage : everywhere else. Will not use the LDO 24V wiring, but thicker gauge ones (2x1.5mm²) Clean and CE compliant. Of course properly earthed.

Have a pair of smaller 18 amps SSRs from a reputable brand (Crytec, excellent stuff); these two SSRs are smaller than the Omron
The ducts are not needed everywhere ! if the Pi is on front left corner, this frees 2x20mm = 40 mm for the SD card adapter and the USB cables ; will just order low profile ones instead of standard cables ; or even flat cables + adapters (this is how I wired the bed slinger in a tight space

Also, in last resort, with this drawer, there's no need for the bottom acrylic panel ; the drawer baseplate acts as a bottom panel : even could be lowered 20 mm after printing new brackets, allowing for a more usual, smaller footprint PSU. But again this will not be needed.

Now have to find a 300x320x2mm aluminium or zinc plated steel metal sheet (have only far too small or reserved for pending project ones ) Problem being that where I get metal, there's a minimum : 120€ excl VAT. Maybe see some scrapyard...

[EDIT] Crydom, not Crytec. Played Crysis too much !

Edited October 4, 2023 by YaaJ

[Penatr8tor]

@YaaJ So the PSU won't fit outside without notching the drawer.  Interesting...

Just kidding... I'm glad you found a better way. 

25 minutes ago, YaaJ said:

[EDIT] Crydom, not Crytec. Played Crysis too much !

Hahahaha... I played my share of Crysis 2 back in the day. 

[Penatr8tor]

@YaaJ I wanted to mention... Why not use ACM sheet instead of sheet metal. It's lighter, stiffer, easier to cut and cheaper. You could even use an ACM back or bottom panel. I'm sure someone in Europe sells them. ACM = Aluminum Composite Material.

[YaaJ]

For grounding...

Loved Crysis (1 and 2), and also Far Cry 1, 3, and 4. Still using the PC I build for playing full details + 3D surround, with the NVidia 3D Vision gogles. The one that had leaks and killed its PSU. Socket 2011 ; It's 12 years old ! Still perfectly usable. But not playing anymore. Now killed instantly when entering the boat (tried again during the lockdown, a disaster)

Am I alone not being fast enough anymore in FPS ?

This being sayed, I had the sheetmetal. Just under the electronics workbench where I was testing layouts. Didn't think about it despite it was by hand. The bottom plate from an old HP scope that eated its filament years ago, and is just gathering dust . Loved it because of its defferential inputs... (wanted to reuse the inputs, another never done project...). This anchor boat has a 390x420x1.5mm alu bottom plate, vented. Just have to remove 70mm on the right side. But it's 2 AM, the wife will go crazy if I start the compressor and the pneumatic nibbler (or the angle grinder)

[EDIT] read too fast, by ACM I understood acrylic rubber (nitrile)... I don't know this composite material. Googled it, I doubt I could buy some where I live (would have to find some artisan who accept selling small quantities to an individual... Anyway, found what's needed.

Edited October 5, 2023 by YaaJ

[YaaJ]

Some progress. Not that much, but some...

The nibbler is a cheap crappy tool. But it was able to cut. Some rework was required. A lathe file did the job ; and also an automotive bodywork hammer.

Components will fit.

It is designed so the deck will seat on top of the brackets, and the bottom plate will be screwed to the bottom of the fixed part of the rails ; will prevent the bottom panel from sagging : it's flush.

The idea behind the drawer is not new. It was inspired by an old timer : The Digital Dentist, on Reprap forums, who's been building giant printers for a while.

Next problem to solve : the cable chains. They will take a lot of space.

Edited October 6, 2023 by YaaJ

[YaaJ]

Back to the 2.4 and its drawer...

Work in progress. Found e nice design for the BTT 4.3 TFT. Slightly remixed it. Currently printing it on the bed slinger, the 0.2 being too small...

[EDIT] forgot to link the original : https://www.printables.com/fr/model/426803-btt-pi-tft43-v20-voron-24-touch-screen-case

 

Remixing the skirts, that will be bolted to two aluminium corners. The layout being what it is, the power button will be on front, and completely separated from the low voltage compartment : on the right side. On the left, there will be a couple of Keystone slots.

Designing with adjustable aligmnents in mind (as a former owner of a classic british car, I had to learn some skills...)

Edited October 16, 2023 by YaaJ

[claudermilk]

19 hours ago, YaaJ said:

(as a former owner of a classic british car, I had to learn some skills...)

 I'll bet.

[YaaJ]

Made the slighly remixed display. It is gorgeous, the design is briliant. Unfortunately will not use it. Too vertical to my taste. Just ordered a Waveshare 5" that will be hinged and adjustable. The BTT will be repurposed.

Back to the drawing board...

BTW, the Stealthburner did an excellent job on the bed slinger. This model also is a torture test with the hexagons ! eSun ABS+, 15sec min layer time, V6 CHT nozzle 250°C, bed 110°C, chamber 55°C, walls : inside to outside, retraction 0.75mm. And Klipper with IS of course. Adhesion : tabs created in CAD, smooth PEI with 3DLac as release agent. No ringing, no VFA at all.

For those who don't care about the small size and view angle, this display most likely is the best that can be found. After a minor remix (just the holes for the standoffs), it would also be perfect for the Waveshare 4.3". It could be made suitable for the BTT and the Waveshare (2 in 1) : four oblong holes instead of circular ones.

[claudermilk]

 I generally love my 4.3" Waveshare. Plenty big enough for my needs. My only quibble is the mount puts the top of the screen right under the lower door handles, so the very top lines of info (temps) gets blocked of you are close to the printer.

[YaaJ]

It's not a problem with the display, it's a problem with me : the 4.3 (I mounted one on the zero) is exactly in the uncomfortable zone. No glasses, have to lean (it's a pain in the back), glasses : where are the f...g glasses ????? (myopia). And KlipperScreen font sizes don't work well. On the bed slinger, it's a 7" ! 4.3" vs 5" ; the 5" waveshare has a very nice bezel ; the enclosure has to be designed to take advantage of  :

Some progress on the design. And also "some" more mistakes. of course.

Remixed the skirts :

- made them 2-part, so they can be bolted to the electrical base plate ; with oblong holes for lateral alignments ; the two parts are printed so they have a tight fit, and are screwed together. It is rigid enough and there will be no need for alu corners as reinforcements.
- added a micro SD card reader and two Keystone slots (for USB) to the left skirt
- center skirt will be used for the display ; the mecanism is still in the todo list : has to be orientable (30°, 45°, 60°)
- right skirt has two Keystone slots, one will receive a blank, the other one a RGB Voron logo (todo list). On the right, there will be the power switch, reused from the IEC socket that came with the kit ; have plenty of, but this one is bipolar, the switches I have in the drawers being unipolar (all of them)...

Also reprinted the brackets that hold the drawer ; modfied for allowing vertical adjustments. The plate will be adjustable (back and forth, 3rd plane)

 

 

(the vertical "lines" in the slots are integrated supports)

And the mistakes !

The vertical SD card reader is not oriented properly ; it would be perfect for a left handed, I'm right handed !
Forgot the opening for the display cable in the center skirt !
The test print for the display bezel doesn't match the display filets ! Didn't properly read the docs, and read a distance as a radius. In fact, Waveshare does not provide a complete drawing, had to get down to the workshop and measure with the gages... 4mm ; luckily, it was just a test print, not the full enclosure. Luckily. Because I also forgot the opening for the display cable !

Feel like this mod will never end...

 

 

[claudermilk]

11 hours ago, YaaJ said:

The vertical SD card reader is not oriented properly perfectly; it would be perfect for a left handed

FTFY (from a leftie. )

[YaaJ]

The two versions now exist !

When holding the SD card between the 1st and 2nd finger of my right hand, with the markings facing up, I felt stupid when I realized that I will not be able to insert the card without flipping it. Reminded me the times PCs had floppy drives mounted vertically, when stands were sold to turn them into towers !

Today, had a very hard time. First the bed slinger X axis decided to drive me crazy, one more time. From time to time, it doesn't move, or moves the opposite direction with funny noises. Seems to be a cold solder joint on the motor connector. It's been doing this from time to time for a couple of months, and always been procrastinating a swap... Then, the klicky probe decided to die. When I made the probe (of ABS) I didn't glue the magnets. One of them didn't hold in place anymore after 6 months. Of course, the Super Glue messed up with the electrical contact. Had to go back to the BLTouch. And of course had to recrimp some wires. JSTs and Dupont. Not speaking of the ghetto enclosure, falling apart, and that required a couple more meters of duct tape. As a result, nothing new today.

Reprinted what had to be reprinted, and wanted to see the results on the printer frame ; for now, everything seems to fit :

 

 

[Penatr8tor]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:03 AM, claudermilk said:

FTFY (from a leftie. )

Hahaha Lefty here too.

[YaaJ]

Back to the project...

Finally gave up with all the useless crap (Keystone USB ports, etc.). It is usefull for the Zero (that can be used as a small personnal computer), but the 2.4 will never be one. Made everything easily accessible from inside the drawer.

Redesigned the side skirts. First of all, and it's incredible, the fans have errors in the 3D models ! The fan grills dimensions are incorrect. First, I printed the original ones, and they didn't fit the fans provided with the LDO kit. Screws spacings were too large by half a millimeter, and the corners fillets didn't match. There's a urban legend telling that CAD files dimensions do take ABS shrinking into account... Verified the 3D models, this is absolutely wrong. The side skirts are doomed by design, and that's it. The designer probably compensated his/her prints at CAD level instaed of slicer level, Lost hours on this crap. And verified that side skirts and exhaust filter gill are wrong. They are the only parts with funny dimensions.

The side skirts didn't sound good to my eyes, and didn't look good to my ears...Didn't llike this flat center area...

Tested a more symmetrical design...

Finally decided to redesign the side skirts, based on the center rear skirt, and added white inserts ; much better IMHO...

The electronics being in a drawer, the fans had to be relocated. At first, I tried to keep them where they are supposed to be. Even designed (but never printed) air ducts ; tested many things...

Also replaced the bed slinger ghetto enclosure with a decent one (skirts and some other parts are too large for the Zero).

The fans were relocated, and oriented to the deck at about 45°.

Works with two cable chains. One for high voltage, one for low voltage.

This project is more complicated than I thought... Much more... The bed wirings will not be easily accessible unless the bed is hinged (next sub project...)

Mods I'm currently working on :

- hoodmod, but without gas springs. I have some experience with these things, and they apply a huge amount of force on the structure. Did it on a heavily modded Range Rover (for exclusive off road use) and had to realign everything from the bulkhead (firewall ?) to the radiator grill. Nevermore !!!. Most likely machined hinges and locks.

- GE5C Z joints (most likely machined parts)

- CANBUS, with the Octopus as bridge. Octopus tested good with UART at 2 Mbit/s (bitrate probably needs  more than 1Mbit/s, 1Mbps being the standard CANBUS bandwidth. (???)

- pinmod (currently 3rd iteration, the 4th should be be the final one)

 

 

[YaaJ]

It's been a little while since this thread was updated... But a lot of work was done.

Remixed the Voron A and B drive frames, made them yet another pin mod. Also printed the Ramalama2 front idlers (pin variant of course). And remixed the XY joints for... pins ! All made for a tight (press) fit, and printed with 75% gyroid infill.

 

Making the pins. From rods salvaged from paper printers. 4.95 to 4.98 mm diam. Perfect. A trick : it's not always easy to find this kind of material. For example, my metal dealer asks for a minimum 150€ purchase. Amazon, Ali and eBay : you never know what you will be shipped. Reputable online vendors have crazy pricings. Few people know this : drill bits are conical. They are conical because if they were cylindrical, they would get stuck or they would seize while drilling deep holes. As a result, the shank is always smaller than the nominal diameter. And guess what... The shank is 4.95mm for a 5mm drill bit. And the shank is not that hard (or it would ruin chucks everytime the drill get stuck). For perfect pins, get a bunch of cheap 5mm drill bits, cut them with a Dremel, and chamfer the ends with a power drill as a lathe, and a file.

Didn't have to do this, there's what's needed in the workshop...

The lathe is too large, can't measure the pin length between the jaws... As a result, facing + chamfering one end on the lathe, cutting to length on the mill, and back to the lathe for chamfering the other end.

Fun fact : 6+ years ago, I went to 3D printing because of a much smaller lathe. Purchased the steppers, the ballscrews, found an old motheroard for Linux CNC, got the drivers, got everything, and completely took the machine apart. Then got a 3D printer because some enclosures were required. Went into this rabit hole, and still deep inside. And the small lathe that would have made this quicker is still in pieces...

Made Z idlers, pined, and toolless.

Inspired by :

 

and https://github.com/MasturMynd/2-Piece_Z_Tensioners

The Cahoticlab design was recently removed from the VoronUsers Git. I downloaded the archive on september 12, the filezs are in the archive. They are not on Github anymore. Looking at the models and the alignments, it seems to me there is a small issue. I kept the concept, but redesigned everything, with dimensions based on the original Voron model.

I uploaded the STLs here : https://github.com/CachecticLab/Voron-2.4-Mods and called them Beefy_Z_Idlers_YaaJ ; will export the STEPs later, but it is of little interest : can't export the features. Only the volumes.

The Ramalama2 front idlers are a gorgeous design. Just perfect. But the repo is a mess !!!

The files I printed are :

Beta_Cover_Angled.stl
Nipplefix-Front-Idlers_Housing_30mmScrew.stl
Nipplefix-Front-Idlers_Housing-Cover.stl
Front-Idlers_Inlet-5.00mm_alternative.stl (for a tight, press fit).

(Have a little problem with the Voron 0.2 ; it's now producing some Z banding, at least at higher speeds. Retightned everything, no success. The first thing I did after the projectt was completed was reprinting all Voron 0.2 structural parts on the 0.2 itself. Will have to rebuild it sooner than expected)

And it's time for THE RANT !

I would kill the guy that designed the GE5C Mod. Spent 2 HOURS crawling on the carpet, seeking screws, shims and spacers. How the hell can a normal human mount these joints on a 2.4 with 2 hands only ???? It's always easy on Youtube. I'd like to see the editing !

As a result, after 2 hours crawling and swearing, I remixed the thing for an easy mount. First the belt clip and the M5 screw with the ball joint, then the Z_joint. I just made a cut for the screw head, and it was a world of a difference !

On the left, the original parts. On the right the modded ones, much much easier to mount ! (3 low profile, and a normal one for the XY endstops)

 

The results :

1 - Mount the belt and the clip. Belt job is done. Ea-si-ly !

2 - Mount the balljoint with its shim and its M5 screw (I use two shims, one on each side) ; easy !

Now push the plastic part

And now the 4 screws for the Z carriage.

Done.

Less than one minute.

Isn't that much easier than wiggling a screw that can't be seen while holding the belt and attempting to make everything fit at once ???

The original files can be found here :

https://github.com/VoronDesign/VoronUsers/tree/master/printer_mods/hartk1213/Voron2.4_GE5C

The repo should be renamed. For example :

"Voron 2.4 GE5C Z joint, a puzzle by hartk123"

(BTW, have some problems with my fingers that make such assemblies really difficult)

I uploaded the remixed files here : https://github.com/CachecticLab/Voron-2.4-Mods/tree/main/Z_Joints_GE5C_Igus_EGLM_05_YaaJ

 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by YaaJ

[YaaJ]

Added a Y-Stop feature to the "XY Cable Chain" Bridge and the "Cable Cover A".
Didn't have to take the gantry apart. There's another puzzle by hartk123, and didn't want to go this route (hopefully he doesn't read this forum, he could think I'm bullying him).

Added a tab on the "XY Cable Chain", and another on the  "Cable Cover A" for holding a modest RepRap endstop :

Will have to rework "Cable Cover A" : beautififul integrated support, but not that beautiful overhangs...

Now working on the X-Endstop.

[YaaJ]

The cable cover on motor A was redesigned, with M2 inserts. No tapping screws.

X endstop : remixed x_carriage_frame_right, the swtich was slighly lowered (1.9 mm) to make room for the upper M2 insert. No problems.

Toolhead. The LDO kit comes with two breakout boards (by hartk !). Unfortunately, they are useless with the EBB36, and all wires now being too short, everything had to be rewired...

First, fan stickers were removed. Tested a method demonstrated long ago by Dave Jones for the infamous "waranty void if removed" stickers. Worked like a charm.

 

Of course, the solder joints are made of ROHS, lead free, rubbish solder. Have to clean the pads as mixing leaded/lead only gives crappy solder joints.

And of course, was visited by Mr Bozzo and Mr Murphy in person ! Soldered the wrong wire on the hotend fan. Same player shoots again.

Rainbow Barf LED mod , and wires + solder replacement.

The stickers are back, looks good, unused.

Not much room for the heatsink !

Read horror stories about the EBB 36 2209 overheating tendencies... Maybe a fan could help. Will have to add one. Either a 30 or 40 mm axial one, or a radial. A radial, mounted  reversed, could move some air around the motor, before blowing to the heatsink and the PCB groundplane...

One more mod is to be done. For easy hotend swap. Will do what I did for the Tevo Tornado years ago, and for its Stealthburner conversion : "aviation" GX12 connectores, 4 pins (heater + thermistor) :

Until now, I was running separate umbilicals. It has to be on the X carriage (because of the extruder driver)

And BTW, the USB socket is inline with the hotned, not at an angle. Will be easier than expected for the USB umbilical.

Early swappable hotends system, inspired by the famous PetsFang. Indexable mount, fan's M3x50mm screws were used for tightening the heads on the mount. Toll change : 1-2 mn. Nozzle offsets calibrated, then sent to Marlin by Cura, depending on the nozzle. Worked like a charm. (hotends and fans were dirt cheap before 2020, even from Trianglelab !)

Edited November 24, 2023 by YaaJ

[YaaJ]

Breaking news : the Cahoticlab tool free tensioner was not removed from the VoronUsers repo, it was moved to "orphaned_mods" (last month, commit 88664b7)
I prefer posting the information rather than just editing the post, for visibility.

https://github.com/VoronDesign/VoronUsers/tree/master/orphaned_mods/printer_mods/Chaoticlab/Tool_free_tensioner

(of course, it is also in the TeamFDM database)

Edited November 25, 2023 by YaaJ

[YaaJ]

Last developments. Third iteration (with no stepper fan, no driver cooler) ; I think it will be the most compact toolhead that can be done (the graal - a LOT of weight could be saved on this toolhead, because the air ducts have useless massive thicknesses).

The drag chin that was mounted on the printer is a bit too large. Tis pic demonstrates the proiblem. I piled up 3, from a tiny 7x7 down to a ??? (too lazy to search what it is ; came with the kit)

CAD porn :

Edited November 26, 2023 by YaaJ