Building a high temp Voron (Trident) for PEEK - any ideas?

[Buurman]

So, im thinking about challenging myself with something more useful than a Enraged Rabbit nightmare   (project on hold for now)

I want to build a high temperature able printer for PEEK printing.

What PEEK needs is, at least:

• Bed Temp: 130/140/150 degrees C
• Chamber Temp: 80/90 degrees C
• Hotend Temp: 450 degrees C

As you can imagine this brings some challenges that needs solving, like:

• back/top/side Panels - default ones wont do, probably higher temp resistant, and sides dont need to be transparent.
• PARTS - ASA wont do, so looking into CNC parts OR high temp resin printed parts.
• Front Panel - Maybe only a smaller window in a bigger (iron/aluminium isolated) door, maybe glass? (gonna be hot)
• Hotend maybe water cooled, maybe not direct drive, so the motor is outside the hot part.
• Chamber heater probably needed, bed fans on a Trident.. hmm, does that work and do you want to (heat to top)
• Maybe introduce a movable heat shield (harmonic) right around the hotend. (cool part above, heat under)

If anyone has crazy ideas, im up for investigating!! 

[Ducky4546]

That sounds like fun project!

So the question is once you get it printing high temp parts. Is there any filament that can be used to print mods or test parts. 

Im using the E3D high temp bed in my replicator build. That bed can go up to 250c! 

[Buurman]

2 hours ago, Ducky4546 said:

using the E3D high temp bed in my replicator build. That bed can go up to 250c! 

That’s great information I’ll look it up and see what they got

[Datura]

You're going to need to solve the issue of overheating A/B motors at PEEK temps. I have some liquid cooling blocks that are perfectly sized to nema motors, you could maybe use those and use some insulation wrap around them. You're definitely going to want liquid cooling anyways, would be difficult finding fans for hotend and parts cooling that wouldnt melt under those temps. You're also most likely going to have to resort to CNC'd parts though you could also buy PEEK parts too I suppose, I don't think resin is going to hold out at all. Double pane insulated glass would be a good option for the front door though you'd most likely want to make it just a small window on a metal door with insulation on the inside.

[Ducky4546]

3 hours ago, Datura said:

You're going to need to solve the issue of overheating A/B motors at PEEK temps

I have been working on a modified design of my own and getting the AB motors out of the chamber was one of the big items I was trying to achieve. With some modeling I bet you could create an insulated cover internal to the stock trident frame.  Effectively mold the rear wall around the AB motors. I went way to far down the rabbit hole for sure. 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Ducky4546

[Buurman]

Looks cool what you are doing there, but I try to keep it simple at first, or atleast, a good solution, but not too difficult so easy to adjust.

Looks like a water cooling hotend is going in for sure, with bowden solution, not direct drive.

Water cooling on both AB motors, and yes, maybe create some case for them or isolation, maybe just watercooling is enough, testing will tell.

I try to NOT put fans inside the chamber, so part cooling will most likely happen by a tube with fans outside the box.

Will be taking some custom design for a duct to have this, but luckily I have help who can design.. 

[Buurman]

20 hours ago, Datura said:

I have some liquid cooling blocks that are perfectly sized to nema motors

You have a link? I found some on Ali, and some here https://dyzedesign.com/2018/02/enp-water-blocks-3d-printers/

Yet, maybe ther is more out there.

Dragon hotend here: https://www.phaetus.com/dragon-whf/

[Buurman]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:54 PM, Ducky4546 said:

Im using the E3D high temp bed in my replicator build. That bed can go up to 250c! 

very interesting but 100V not an option really... Trying to find something simular and if possible 350mm...

[claudermilk]

Nero does have his Toasty Boi build:

And of course the infamous one:

 

[Buurman]

Always a joy to look at, but think im going a bit more hardcore into this.. I didnt get his chamber temp, seems to be very slow, not hot.

But this being very important, need to find a decent way of heating it up to 100 degrees C and getting it constant.

[RopusLongus]

Fro. Industrial knowledge I would go for tempered float glass 5mm for the clear view parts and for 10mm insulated Aluminium (don't know the English word for those honeycomb plates).

Whater cooled is a must for that setup even the moons don't run overtime. Most of the high class peek printers have isulatet drive chambers but that's for industrial work.

I fear a voron style printer will go up for the double amount of money.

High print resin parts can do the job but a major problem is getting heat inserts or drilled srew holes in it cause most of the material is very instable for such things.

Cnc parts would do a good but expensive job. I rather would ask a company for powder laser parts with some high temp material.

 

Sounds very like I neat project, AL my luck for that.

[Buurman]

I dont want to curse in this forum, but I am 100% sure is going to be the base to start from:

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005004944283622.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.hotSpots_2006271332574.1&gatewayAdapt=glo2nld

Most of this thing is CNC parts and the rest is not critical for strength... 

Really like this project, and yes, water cooled hotend and motor plates, to keep things reasonably cool.

The PC transparent plates are 120C resistant, but I think I will replace them with double aluminium plates and rockwool inbetween them.

That means changing the extrusion, or just double them, I want to create a space on the right and top to put watercooling in and a filament roll and have hot air pass the roll too, so its already on temperature, possibly a second roll just to have it ready.

Its still early stage, I still have about 4 Vorons to finish! 

 

These days, CANBUS, CNC TAP, Daylights, bedfans... you just cant do without

[mvdveer]

Good to see you back my friend - we missed you. The VZBot is an excellent starting point and I had a look at that kit - looks great. Only concern I had , is that in the "fine print" it says it is still a "BETA"  production and users to expect some inconsistencies whatever that means. Looking forward to both your and @Penatr8tor's builds

[Buurman]

8 hours ago, mvdveer said:

Good to see you back my friend - we missed you. The VZBot is an excellent starting point and I had a look at that kit - looks great. Only concern I had , is that in the "fine print" it says it is still a "BETA"  production and users to expect some inconsistencies whatever that means. Looking forward to both your and @Penatr8tor's builds

Yeah, I noticed that too, they do mention it quite clear, still, whats the worse that can happen  hahaha!

Good to be back!

[claudermilk]

 Looking at that bed arrangement...where have I seen that before? 

[Buurman]

15 hours ago, claudermilk said:

 Looking at that bed arrangement...where have I seen that before? 

Hé makes no secret from it that he has been inspired by voron and a voron fan. He just wanted to “improve” it.

I think it’s a very inspiring project. Also cool he works with the Fly team of Mellow to develop cool stuff, like the water cooling stuff is better than anything out there now, like the motor cooling plates. 
 

overkill in most cases I’m sure, but fun.

[Penatr8tor]

I'll add that he, aka Simon Vez,  is innovating in the right direction. His focus is on moving weight away from toolhead to increase speed while also improving power and rigidity of the system. Yes... it can move at ludicrous speeds and if you're trying to print as fast as possible it's more than capable but what I'm hoping is that I can print in the 300mm/s range with the same quality I'm currently getting at half that speed.

Only one way to find out, Right @Buurman?

[Buurman]

Yeah absolutely @Penatr8tor, I still have some Vorons to build but this one is 100% going to happen!!