Vz330 AWD - Strange behaviour.

[TitusADuxass]

My Vz300 is playing up, it keeps failing during print jobs - Extruder not heating as expected.

I ran a PID on the hotend, the temp climbs to about 160c and then falls. Mainsail says that the hotend is on and I can confirm that it is hot.

I swapped out the thermistor - but that made no difference. I suspect that the problems lies with the O2S board.

[PFarm]

Possible hot end heater has a loose wire?

 

[Penatr8tor]

Well... That's not good.

I would try disconnecting the Rapido and attach and old hotend/thermistor to test to see if the Rapido is bad.

Also what @PFarm recommended.

Good luck, I hate it when stuff doesn't work.

[ErickSaint]

I had an issue on another printer, the solder joint broke on a pad at the toolhead board. I can't remember if it was the heater or thermistor connection. Not sure if it was a cold solder joint from new, but I cleaned it up, hit it with new solder and it never came back. Maybe see if your readings fluctuate when you move the plug around in the connector, or connector itself?

[TitusADuxass]

20 hours ago, PFarm said:

Possible hot end heater has a loose wire?

I've checked this and it seems okay. Unfortnately the O2S board doesn't have the same terminations as the O2 board. On the O2 board its the simple slotted screw type connector. The O2S has a plug (the type that I can never remember) and they are right pigs to de-pin.

[TitusADuxass]

8 hours ago, ErickSaint said:

I had an issue on another printer, the solder joint broke on a pad at the toolhead board. I can't remember if it was the heater or thermistor connection. Not sure if it was a cold solder joint from new, but I cleaned it up, hit it with new solder and it never came back. Maybe see if your readings fluctuate when you move the plug around in the connector, or connector itself?

I'll it a good wiggle this evening.

[Penatr8tor]

9 hours ago, TitusADuxass said:

The O2S has a plug (the type that I can never remember) and they are right pigs to de-pin.

Molex Micro-Fit 3.0

Last time I went looking for some of those it was a pain and they were overpriced. Most of my stock of these connectors is from previous toolboard purchases.

[ErickSaint]

8 minutes ago, Penatr8tor said:

Molex Micro-Fit 3.0

Last time I went looking for some of those it was a pain and they were overpriced. Most of my stock of these connectors is from previous toolboard purchases.

I got the connectors and pins in an assortment of 2,3,4 sizes, from Ali pretty cheap. The tools for depinning the molex were about 35 bucks.

[TitusADuxass]

14 hours ago, ErickSaint said:

The tools for depinning the molex were about 35 bucks.

Which is about 30 bucks more than I want to pay for something that won't be used much.

[TitusADuxass]

Just a quick Heads-Up!

Aliexpress Black Friday has Molex Micro-Fit 3.0 female contact extractor tool for €12,29.

[TitusADuxass]

I fitted a new PT1000 thermistor, inspected the Molex connector contacts and everything thing appears to be back to normal now.

[Penatr8tor]

4 hours ago, TitusADuxass said:

everything thing appears to be back to normal now

Fingers crossed it holds up for a while.

Yesterday I did a quick service update to my VzBot. Replaced the super cheap 4010 cooling fans that mount over the 5160 driver boards. Three of them were partially seized and were screaming at me every time I turned on the printer. I also am having a weird issue where I get an error heating the bed to 110c, it gets to 110c and then the temp starts to drop below what's expected and errors out. After a couple tries it goes away until it cools to ambient and the problems shows up again. I thought it might be the SSR so, I replaced the one I had with a new one I had and the problem didn't go away. It could be something with the thermistor in the bed heater; time will reveal the issue I suspect.

[mvdveer]

5 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

It could be something with the thermistor in the bed heater; time will reveal the issue I suspect.

That's what it would be, I think. Had the same issue some time back and as you replaced the relay as well as the bed cutout fuse without luck. Only resolved after replacing the bed heater pad.

[Penatr8tor]

5 hours ago, mvdveer said:

That's what it would be, I think. Had the same issue some time back and as you replaced the relay as well as the bed cutout fuse without luck. Only resolved after replacing the bed heater pad.

I still remember replacing the bed heater on my 2.4. Really not looking forward to peeling off another bed, but we will see. It will deteriorate over time and it will get fixed when it finally kicks the bucket. I'll find a good replacement in the meantime. I also have a wago junction in the chamber. I'll double check those connections, could still be something simple that's been overlooked. 

[ErickSaint]

1 hour ago, Penatr8tor said:

I still remember replacing the bed heater on my 2.4. Really not looking forward to peeling off another bed, but we will see. It will deteriorate over time and it will get fixed when it finally kicks the bucket. I'll find a good replacement in the meantime. I also have a wago junction in the chamber. I'll double check those connections, could still be something simple that's been overlooked. 

Could you maybe fix a replacement bead type thermistor to the bed sheet with a blob of high temp rtv? When I was building my Vz I saw a few vids where guys were using that to stick down the edges of their heater sheets, as well as attach the thermal fuse I think.

[Penatr8tor]

1 hour ago, ErickSaint said:

Could you maybe fix a replacement bead type thermistor to the bed sheet with a blob of high temp rtv? When I was building my Vz I saw a few vids where guys were using that to stick down the edges of their heater sheets, as well as attach the thermal fuse I think.

I did that on my 2.4. I pried open the edge of pad and stuck a generic thermistor in the gap just to test. I ran a bunch of prints with it before I did a proper fix and it worked as well as the built in one.

What's the saying, Nothing is more permanent than a temporary fix that works.

[TitusADuxass]

15 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

Fingers crossed it holds up for a while.

Yesterday I did a quick service update to my VzBot. Replaced the super cheap 4010 cooling fans that mount over the 5160 driver boards. Three of them were partially seized and were screaming at me every time I turned on the printer. I also am having a weird issue where I get an error heating the bed to 110c, it gets to 110c and then the temp starts to drop below what's expected and errors out. After a couple tries it goes away until it cools to ambient and the problems shows up again. I thought it might be the SSR so, I replaced the one I had with a new one I had and the problem didn't go away. It could be something with the thermistor in the bed heater; time will reveal the issue I suspect.

Have you got Verify heater in your cfg?

[TitusADuxass]

4 hours ago, ErickSaint said:

Could you maybe fix a replacement bead type thermistor to the bed sheet with a blob of high temp rtv? When I was building my Vz I saw a few vids where guys were using that to stick down the edges of their heater sheets, as well as attach the thermal fuse I think.

I have a bed edge thermistor on my v2.4. I drilled a 1,5 (I think) hole in the edge of the bed plate. It's just deep enough for a bed thermistor. The thermistor is held in place with some Boron Nitride paste.

[Penatr8tor]

7 hours ago, TitusADuxass said:

Have you got Verify heater in your cfg?

No, I don't think so. Do I need it?

[Penatr8tor]

7 hours ago, TitusADuxass said:

I have a bed edge thermistor on my v2.4. I drilled a 1,5 (I think) hole in the edge of the bed plate. It's just deep enough for a bed thermistor. The thermistor is held in place with some Boron Nitride paste.

That might not be a bad idea. But... If I wanted to do that, I'd have to remove the build plate and at that point I might as well get out the scraper and replace the heater with a new one.

Thanks for the idea though. On second thought... It might also be beneficial to drill a hole while it's off, just in case.

[ErickSaint]

2 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

That might not be a bad idea. But... If I wanted to do that, I'd have to remove the build plate and at that point I might as well get out the scraper and replace the heater with a new one.

Thanks for the idea though. On second thought... It might also be beneficial to drill a hole while it's off, just in case.

I was thinking about drilling and tapping my bed for a m3 screw in thermistor. But I wasn't sure if center of the bed where the heater one is, or edge was better. But it seems like a backup plan for the next time I have my vz bed off.

[Penatr8tor]

4 minutes ago, ErickSaint said:

I was thinking about drilling and tapping my bed for a m3 screw in thermistor. But I wasn't sure if center of the bed where the heater one is, or edge was better. But it seems like a backup plan for the next time I have my vz bed off.

I like the screw in thermistor idea. 

As for where the hole could/should be located? I really don't think it matters that much. Aluminum is a really good conductor, and the entire plate will heat up evenly enough that it won't matter. It didn't when I did my little shove the thermistor tip under the mat trick so, it probably won't with a drilled hole.

[TitusADuxass]

16 hours ago, Penatr8tor said:

No, I don't think so. Do I need it?

It reduces the number of heater errors, you can have a verify heater section for both heaters.

This is what I have in my .cfg

 

#####################################################################
#     Bed Heater
#####################################################################

[heater_bed]
##    SSR Pin - BED_OUT
heater_pin: PF5
sensor_type: Generic 3950
sensor_pin: PB1
##    Adjust Max Power so your heater doesn't warp your bed
max_power: 0.6
min_temp: 0
max_temp: 125
control: pid
pid_kp: 49.182 #40.955 #58.437
pid_ki: 1.179 #2.347
pid_kd: 512.719 #363.769

### only needed if there's heater problems.

[verify_heater heater_bed]
max_error: 180
check_gain_time: 90
hysteresis: 10
heating_gain: 1

The max power setting really does extend the heating up time.

Here's what I have for the hotend. This is in the Orbitool_O2.cfg

[verify_heater extruder]
max_error: 180
check_gain_time: 90
hysteresis: 10
heating_gain: 1

[TitusADuxass]

I put a bed edge thermistor in because I found that although mainsail showed that the bed was upto temp the edges were not hot enough for ABS.  A longer heatsoak gets around this but I wanted to know if the bed was really hot enough.

 

[TitusADuxass]

Here's the installation.